lyman trade rifle

[sherpa]

What do you guys think of the lyman trade rifle??

[killer]

It was my first flintlock 22 years ago, and it was great. It got me through my first rondys and a big learning curve. They are great guns. I have also owned a great plains, Lymans are good guns.

[sherpa]

I found a used one and I think it is a good price. What do these normally sell for? I am wondering, how much powder can you stuff under a .490 ball and still get good accuracy from this rifle which I believe has a 1-48 twist. I ask because I want to hunt elk with it but I only want to use a roundball. Or would I be better off looking for a .54 caliber? Also, is this a good rifle or would I be better off holding off and putting the $$ towards something different? Also, what are your opinions on loads for a 50 prb for elk? Thanks.

[William]

If you look around you can find the TR for about $300 plus shipping, at least that's what I bought mine for.  As for caliber, the .50 is most popular and has plenty of power when it comes to taking game at muzzle loader ranges, but I'm particular to my .54.  A little heavier ball, a little more downrange energy, a bigger hole.

The 1:48 twist works well for both PRB and some lighter conicals such as the Buffalo Ball-et, Lee REAL bullets, Great Plains bullet, but don't go more than 350 grains as performance might not be the best.  First and formost, whatever caliber you choose, find the best ball size and patch combination.  Then you can start checking on conical performance.

[flintboomer]

A friend has one that tears the patches off, but he puts a .54 bore button over the powder, then the patched .490 ball and it shoots fine.
Take it to the range and find out what it likes. 70 to 100 grains should do the job unless you like really long shots. I don't recomend shooting at more than 100 yards unless you are really good and know exactly what your rifle will do. I prefer to keep my shots at 75 yards or less and have hunted  with both .50 and .54. My .58 isn't reliable enough yet to hunt with.

[flintboomer]

I looked up the energy of a 180 grain .498 ball in the old Lyman Blackpowder Handbook and although the powders used are obsolete and I recommend that you use FF for heavy hunting loads instead of the FFF that they used, here are their figures. You will need to find out what your velocity is to make a good comparison and FF is generally about 20% slower than FFF.

70gr   1587fps 1005lb muzzle energy 365lb at 100yd
80gr   1692fps 1143lb                     398lb   
90gr   1796fps 1287lb                     430lb
100gr 1875fps 1403lb                     458lb


They list loads that go up to 160 and 200 grains if you want to try them, but none of the traditional gunmakers recomend loading that heavy any more for liability reasons.

I don't own a Lyman, but they sell good solid guns that are usually good shooters.

[tatonka11]

good starter gun no doubt,I would inquire lyman  and find out FOR SURE what they recommend as far as loads go,better safe then sorry!   

[sherpa]

Wow thanks for all the info. I am going to ponder this a little more. I am definetly going to buy a flinter, but I am also checking a few other rifles too. I must say that the LTR I found is a screaming deal though. My main intention for this rifle will be to hunt elk though. I will place a limit of 100yds on any shot I take at a living animal. So you guys figure a 490 ball sitting on 70-80 grains of 2F ought to do it for elk at less than 100 yds then? I think I would still rather find a 54 since I plan on using only prb's. However the LTR is such a good deal, I might have to jump on it. Oh decisions, decisions!

[tatonka11]

I will voice my humble opinion,if I was buying a front stuffer for large game at least a .54 would be minimum .58 better and .62 better yet.
Don't want to ruffel any feathers here ,this is just my humble opinion.

[Spitunia]

Sometimes fifty seems like an in-between caliber and sometimes the best all around.  .
I just wish I had something to use that .420 round ball mold for.

[Spitunia]

But it you get a good price on the Trade Rifle it oughta be good to you.
History shows that Lymans are usually solid rifles and that a 48" twist in a fifty caliber works.

[flintboomer]

I would suggest keeping the shots at 50 yds and under if possible if you are using 70-80 grains & rb, that way you have a little leeway to go over 50 if it happens that way. How good of a shot you are and how well your rifle shoots are also important. Remember that an elk is a large animal and it takes a lot to take them down. I have taken about a dozen elk and muzzleloaders within their limits will take an elk down faster than most cartridge guns.
I have always used a slug (They work really well.) because my old TC Renegade (.54 cal.) would never shoot balls with more than a 45 grain charge.
When it comes to elk with patched ball a 54 or 58 will definitely have more energy on target than a 50, after that it is up to you and the elk.

[sherpa]

"I would suggest keeping the shots at 50 yds and under if possible if you are using 70-80 grains & rb, that way you have a little leeway to go over 50 if it happens that way."

Sounds like good advice and I believe that I will take it. I usually regulate my sights for 50 anyways, and then I can aim a bit high if I have to. But I won't shoot past 100, period. thats just me though.

It is looking like I will probably go with the Cabela's 54 instead of the trade rifle. The Cabelas is a little more expensive, but I think the 54 will be a better option. Has anyone here shot the Cabelas hawken with prb? How much powder can i stuff under the ball and still get good accuracy? Anyone know what rate of twist these have? I would guess 1-48, but I am not sure. My CVA Hawken with a 1-48 will not shoot prb with big powder charges, thats why i shoot 50 gr of 2F. i wonder if the cabelas will do better with a larger charge?

Flintboomer, I see you're in Denver, what units are good for BP elk that don't require a million points?

[tatonka11]

Sherpa,all you have to do is call cabelas and they will give you all the help you need,in addition I'm sure an adequate information will be sent with the firearm.

[flintboomer]

Sherpa
Area 58 was good for elk, but you have to do some searching to find where the elk are and you won't draw a license every year, but you will always have good odds of drawing.

If you are looking at the Cabelas hawkin they are solid rifles and are the same thing Dixie Gunworks sells. They can be cheek biters with heavy loads, so if you are a thin guy they should be fine, but if you are heavy and have a round face they would not be a good choice.