Warning/Stolen property/rip-offs

[gordy]

    After much more thought on the subject , I agree with Mongrel and Hawkens 50 . I believe it would be a mistake to become the judge in these cases. There is little question  about there being individuaks who cruise the net looking for oppertunitys to take advantage of unsupecting individuals who are a little too trusting. Overall I think the folks running and policeing this board pretty much keep tabs on members who constantly push the limits of the basic rules. I think there have been one or two who were exiled.
          For myself , I try to make my word my bond. If at anytime someone feels the article(s) sold or swapped are less then what I,ve claimed. We,ll work out the difference in price , or I,ll return their money/material.
          So I guess my final opinion is NO the Admin. should not become involved with "deals" made between individuals.
                                                                 

[mongrel]

I'm going to expand on my original points, just a bit, not only as a staff member here but as someone who buys and sells on a semi-professional level and probably does more transactions of both types than most of the membership, here, combined. The amount of business I do, selling and buying guns, parts, and occasionally accessories brings me in contact with a number of other folks who operate on a similar or even broader scale, which is why I said earlier I've been witness to a fair number of deals gone south.

First off, it's not the purpose or the wish of the staff, here, to start acting as arbitrators in disputes between private parties. This is a discussion forum for the spreading of information and education related to our sport. The entire area devoted to buying, selling, trading, and otherwise dealing in guns and accessories is strictly a courtesy and a by-product of the main forum, and anyone whose focus is on the business area really ought to open accounts with GunBroker, eBay, and similar outfits that deal with this sort of thing professionally, for profit, and have well-established guidelines and procedures in place in case of disputes. Since we can't and won't assume the role of judge and jury, in the event of a dispute, we'd be out of line, ourselves, to open a board for the posting of accusations of shady dealings. By definition the stuff posted there would be the claim of one person, with no proof of truth presented beforehand, and as I said before it would be grossly irresponsible of us to allow reputations to be destroyed, in a lot of people's minds, by allowing someone to post something in anger, spite, or simple misunderstanding that turned out to be untrue.

I might also add that it would surprise a lot of people here to ever become aware of how much behind-the-scenes staff discussion takes place in regard to situations we've been made aware of and are trying to get to the bottom of. Quite a few posts in our staff-only discussion area, personal messages, e-mails, and phone calls are consumed in trying to keep this a place where the membership can safely conduct a certain amount of private buying, selling, and trading. When a seller here is careless in his practices or a buyer somehow forgets to pay for an item sent to him in good faith, we almost always become aware of it and you can believe we take such information very, very seriously. This forum is geared to the newcomer and the veteran trying to acquire gear or put together an outfit at minimal expense, which means conducting a lot of deals with private parties, and we're very much on watch for the sort of parasites who regard that situation as a quick and easy way to make some money on shady deals and then blow camp before too many people have caught on to their game.

When it comes to companies operating in the public sector, a word of warning in the "Announcements" or "General Muzzleloading" categories is about all we can do to help in the event something goes wrong in dealing with one of those outfits. I've had one transaction in particular go really, really bad on me, involving quite a few hundred dollars paid to one of the suppliers to our sport. I didn't publicize it, here, because the lawyers for outfits like that are better than the ones I can afford and I really don't want to find myself sued for slander and outgunned in court, and plus the fact this just isn't the venue for that sort of accusation. I went to my bank, since my bank card had paid for the items I never received, and they resolved the matter at no expense to me. That's what I would suggest if there is a serious problem with a public-sector vendor -- make use of the legal remedies which are available for situations like that. Coming on here and complaining that such-and-such an outfit cheated you might feel somewhat satisfactory but it doesn't accomplish a whole lot other than the simple fact of warning others that there might be a problem with that business. We on the staff have to balance the value of that sort of warning against the possibility that the person posting it isn't telling the full story and that the forum might end up being targeted for having spread a malicious and ultimately unfounded rumor in regard to a company's integrity.

Though we like to portray this forum as sort of a cyber-camp at an internet rondy, the fact is that it's a public venue and as such anything and everything that's said, here, the owners and staff of the forum can legally be held accountable for. While there would be a certain amount of valuable information posted if we were to create a "Warning" board, we all of us also know the sorts of people whose mouths run without the benefit of their brains or common sense being involved in the process. We all know the sorts who seem hell-bent on finding and causing trouble wherever a group of people will tolerate them. The creation of a board for anything more than simply stating the facts would just be inviting the posts of people who really couldn't care less what sort of damage they do in the process of being angry, confused, or simply in the mood to stir some fecal matter.

It seems at least in part like a good idea, and maybe it IS actually a good idea, but considering it's not the purpose of this forum and also the amount of trouble that would potentially/probably be caused over the long haul, I hope the membership and especially my fellow staff members will agree it's really not a place we want to go.

[Red Badger]

Mongrel has said it better than I could have.  Besides which everyone should know that if a deal goes sour on this board the Moderators are willing to look into it (as has happened in the past, more times than I would wish to have happened...).

[pathfinder]

I was "duped" once here,but it was handled very proffesionaly by this board. I really dont think another section needs to be installed. It could REALLY blow up in EVERYONES face! I feel it would become a "gossip ground".

The way thing's are being handled now work's just fine.

[pilgrim]

     I agree

[da_backwoodsman]

I was "duped" once here,but it was handled very proffesionaly by this board. I really dont think another section needs to be installed. It could REALLY blow up in EVERYONES face! I feel it would become a "gossip ground".

The way thing's are being handled now work's just fine.

Wish that was the case for everyone seems if you dont agree with a moderator there answer is to delete you, I expect to be deleted soon, I had a bum deal with a so call respectable moderator and it has been nothing but trouble since he got the money in his hand... I dont see the management of this board offering any assistance Oh but wait one of the managers is a trangressor so no I dont expect anything from this board... it isnt even the same board it used to be when we were on the other site and before those who were KICKED out of another site came here and took over... I wonder what has happened to men of honor.

[old salt]

Pm me the facts

[Red Badger]

We the Factors, not the moderators or Booshways are looking into this situation.  As to references of the other site... He must remember that a few of us were banned from that site for no apparent reason other than we liked to stand up for right.  If we the FACTORS find that the moderator in question is wrong we will do what we have to.  But remember the rules of the for sale/trade area and its warning that we are not a regulator and all deals are between the two individuals.  We will try and find a common ground for resolution but cannot enforce anything about the deal.

[Rev]

We the Factors, not the moderators or Booshways are looking into this situation.  As to references of the other site... He must remember that a few of us were banned from that site for no apparent reason other than we liked to stand up for right.  If we the FACTORS find that the moderator in question is wrong we will do what we have to.  But remember the rules of the for sale/trade area and its warning that we are not a regulator and all deals are between the two individuals.  We will try and find a common ground for resolution but cannot enforce anything about the deal.

Actually, being banned from that forum was a mark of distinction, it showed you had high moral values...