TC Stock-Sharon Barrel-poor fit

[ChrisHarris]

I have been searching for a 15/16 TC Hawken stock for a few years.  I finally found one locally.  The reason I want another stock, is because I have a .45 Sharon barrel (1:66) that fits this stock. 

I was in a local gun store yesterday and found a .50 TC Hawken with a really nice piece of wood.  I looked it over and decided it was in good enough shape, so I bought it.  When I got home, I raced to the safe to retrieve the Sharon barrel.  I pushed the wedge pin out and removed the factory .50 barrel.


It's a kit gun.   

I thought I had looked it over pretty good in the store.  All the parts seemed to fit nicely, so I thought it was a factory gun.

Well, the Sharon barrel doesn't just "slip" into the stock.  I had to wrap my hand around the fore stock and barrel and squeeze a bit to force the barrel down into the channel and get the wedge pin back in.

Take a look at the fit between the tang and the breach.

[mongrel]

That's fairly common with any form of "drop-in" barrel, whether it's a stock from a kit or factory-finished T/C (or Investarms, which take the same barrel with just the tiniest bit of tweaking). In roughly forty-odd years of production, tolerances are liable to differ considerably from one gun to another. You can (carefully) clamp the face of the tang (that the barrel hooks into) in a vise, and (even more carefully) bend the tang downward slightly, and most likely that will cure the problem. Just don't get too energetic about tweaking the fit -- a little goes a long way and it's easy to either mar the metal of the tang or bend too far and end up with an even worse fit to the other extreme (hook not fully engaging tang face even with the barrel flat and flush in the stock.

[ChrisHarris]

 
Thanks Mongrel!

When the face of the tang tilts forward, will I need to relieve any wood under that part of the tang, to allow it to sit deeper into the stock?

FYI: I have a factory TC stock and when I put the Sharon barrel on that one - PERFECT fit.

[pilgrim]

     Would it make any difference if you were to shoot the rifle with this gap?   Is it a safety issue?   Since it has two lock points,  one the hooked breech and the other the Wedge pin.

[bugflipper]

Nowhere near Mongrel's ability here, but I just ran into the same thing with a TC Cherokee. I put together a barrel blank with a new non factory breech. I could see it was slightly bigger than factory. Draw filed it down to best match up with my eye. Turns out I left a bit to much on the bottom. Got the same gap you did and the same resistance with fitting into the stock. Just inletted a hair of clearence with a set of mini woodworking gouges. Now no resistance when putting it in, no gap between the tang and breech and it also shoots great. The factory barrel which fit perfect before still shoots great in it now as well. No slop or anything but the stock is a hair bigger under the breech. All of the rest of the channel fits as normal.

[ChrisHarris]

I don't know.

To me, it seems like there is an area for point loading.  The breach is only contacting the tang at the bottom.  That means, when you pull the trigger, the forces of the barrel will be transferred backwards and into the tang.  But it's only going to transfer that energy through a single point of contact. 

If it were a flush fit all the way across the face of the tang, then the energy would be evenly distributed.

I've got the entire gun apart now. 

The guy who built this gun used some kind of filler or bedding material on all the parts.  For example, under the tang, there is a smudge of some type of brown glue.  On outside appearances, the tang appears to be inletted perfectly.  It's a smooth fit to the stock.  But when the tang comes off, there's bedding material between the stock and the tang.  Same thing was done under the trigger guard.  There's some type of brown epoxy or glue material under the 2 screws.  From first glance, the trigger guard appears to be perfectly inletted.  Nice smooth fit and finish to the stock.  But when I take the guard off, there's 1/16" of bedding material under there.  This material is adhered to the trigger guard on the sides as well-- where it sits down into the stock.

The guy built the gun this way, and it's obvious to me, that he put it together 'wet' and wiped off whatever bedding material spooged and squeezed out when he turned the screws tight.

I can't get the trigger assembly out at all. It's held in by a single screw- which I have removed.  It should pop right out.  But I'm sure he bedded it with the same brown goop and it's essentially glued in there.  I haven't figured out a way to pry it out without smashing wood and causing damage to the stock.

Feeling a little buyers remorse this morning.  I feel deceived.

I think I know why the guy built the gun this way..... but maybe I'm wrong?
I think all the factory inletting is deeper than the thickness of the parts.  It would seem logical to me that most kit guns come this way.  If you take it out of the box and screw it together, the trigger guard, tang, lock ...... will all be recessed down into the stock and you would have wood sticking up.  I think TC did this on purpose.  Thats the idea behind a kit gun.  The user is supposed to sand it down flush, trial and error, fit and re-fit until all the parts are flush and fitted properly.

The problem with the guy that built this gun, is he didn't want to sand any wood off.  He was experienced enough to know that he could use filler or bedding material to make the parts appear to sit flush and well-fitted.  And he didn't sand a darn thing.  Maybe I'm incorrect about the way these kit guns came from the factory.  I always thought they were OVER inletted from the factory and it was up to the user to sand off 1/32" here and there, to achieve a nice flush fit.

Well............. now I get to figure out how to fix it. 

[hotfxr]

I live for situations like this. Half of my rifles were buggered up messes that I got for a low, low price. With wood to remove, look at this as an opportunity to make this rifle uniquely yours. A little penetrating oil and a heat gun should loosen up your trigger to the point of wiggling it out without damaging the wood. A bit of high quality stripper, (Aircraft stripper, Jasco enamel & epoxie stripper) brushed on the bedding should let you clean it out with small chisels & scrapers. For $20 in chemicals and an hour or two you have a blank canvas to work with.   

[30coupe]

I think all the factory inletting is deeper than the thickness of the parts.  It would seem logical to me that most kit guns come this way.  If you take it out of the box and screw it together, the trigger guard, tang, lock ...... will all be recessed down into the stock and you would have wood sticking up.  I think TC did this on purpose.  Thats the idea behind a kit gun.  The user is supposed to sand it down flush, trial and error, fit and re-fit until all the parts are flush and fitted properly.

The problem with the guy that built this gun, is he didn't want to sand any wood off.  He was experienced enough to know that he could use filler or bedding material to make the parts appear to sit flush and well-fitted.  And he didn't sand a darn thing.  Maybe I'm incorrect about the way these kit guns came from the factory.  I always thought they were OVER inletted from the factory and it was up to the user to sand off 1/32" here and there, to achieve a nice flush fit.

Well............. now I get to figure out how to fix it. 

You are correct. When the kit comes from TC the wood will sit quite proud of the metal parts, actually more like 1/16" or a bit more. The brown stuff sounds like Acraglass to me. You could try a heat gun or hair drier to soften the acraglass, so you can scrape it out. I've heard that acetone and mineral spirits combined with the heat will speed the process, but I've not tried that myself. Heat will work if you go slowly and don't use enough to scorch the wood. Actually, if the builder used that much glass, scorching won't really hurt much, since you should remove it anyway. You might still have a diamond in the rough, so don't give up just yet.

[ChrisHarris]

I got the trigger assembly out.  It wasn't glued in, but it was tighter than a frog's butt. 

I'm not sure what do to now.  I have the rifle completely torn down.  The patch box was even 'bedded' with whatever junk the original builder used.  I'm not a wood worker.... and this ain't exactly the best situation to start with.  So, I'm $300 into this and no idea what to do now.  I'm not the type of person that has the ability or patience to try and fix someone elses botched abortion.  It would be something to consider IF I knew the first thing about wood working and inletting, but I DON'T.

I'm thinking about selling the stock, barrel, lock and trigger on ebay or gunbroker.  I would keep all the brass hardware and furniture, buy a Davis DeerSlayer trigger and a lock from Davis or L&R.  Then buy one of the TC replacement stocks from Pecetonia.  But those stocks are sold as 98% inlet.  I have no idea what would be required to finish inletting the stock....... and again, I'm NOT a wood worker.

I need a drink................ there's a bottle of Glenlivet out in the shop. 

[30coupe]

I got the trigger assembly out.  It wasn't glued in, but it was tighter than a frog's butt. 

I'm not sure what do to now.  I have the rifle completely torn down.  The patch box was even 'bedded' with whatever junk the original builder used.  I'm not a wood worker.... and this ain't exactly the best situation to start with.  So, I'm $300 into this and no idea what to do now.  I'm not the type of person that has the ability or patience to try and fix someone elses botched abortion.  It would be something to consider IF I knew the first thing about wood working and inletting, but I DON'T.

I'm thinking about selling the stock, barrel, lock and trigger on ebay or gunbroker.  I would keep all the brass hardware and furniture, buy a Davis DeerSlayer trigger and a lock from Davis or L&R.  Then buy one of the TC replacement stocks from Pecetonia.  But those stocks are sold as 98% inlet.  I have no idea what would be required to finish inletting the stock....... and again, I'm NOT a wood worker.

I need a drink................ there's a bottle of Glenlivet out in the shop. 

Chris, there won't be much actual woodworking to do. Removing the bedding is just a matter of heating it a bit and scraping it out with a small chisel. Don't scrape away any of the wood underneath. Once you get the bedding material out, put the metal parts back in and note how much wood there is above the metal parts. You can take the wood down to the metal with minimal woodworking skill or tools. Go to your local hardware or home center and get a combination wood rasp...not a Chinese one...a Nicholson would be good. While there pick up some 100, 120, 180, and 220 grit sandpaper. Once you have the wood rasped close to where you want it, go through the progression of papers until the wood is smooth. Then finish with whatever you like. I like Truoil, but some here will suggest tung oil.

It would really be pretty easy to make the gun into something you can be proud of and very functional.

[30coupe]

Oh, and you would have similar woodworking to do on the 98% inletted stock. The only thing you would gain is a choice of stock wood. If this one looks nice, I'd dive into it. Most of what you need to do on the TC can be done with just the sandpaper.

[hotfxr]

I got the trigger assembly out.  It wasn't glued in, but it was tighter than a frog's butt. 

I'm not sure what do to now.  I have the rifle completely torn down.  The patch box was even 'bedded' with whatever junk the original builder used.  I'm not a wood worker.... and this ain't exactly the best situation to start with.  So, I'm $300 into this and no idea what to do now.  I'm not the type of person that has the ability or patience to try and fix someone elses botched abortion.  It would be something to consider IF I knew the first thing about wood working and inletting, but I DON'T.

I'm thinking about selling the stock, barrel, lock and trigger on ebay or gunbroker.  I would keep all the brass hardware and furniture, buy a Davis DeerSlayer trigger and a lock from Davis or L&R.  Then buy one of the TC replacement stocks from Pecetonia.  But those stocks are sold as 98% inlet.  I have no idea what would be required to finish inletting the stock....... and again, I'm NOT a wood worker.

I need a drink................ there's a bottle of Glenlivet out in the shop. 

Not to make you hit the jug again, but if you look back through this section, you will find a couple of post by mongrel talking about the deception of the 98% inletted stocks and how difficult it is to complete them. To the point of being easier to make one from scratch, metaphorically speaking. I am a woodworker but that just means I know a lot of shortcuts, not that I have any skill. Believe me in this, nobody sucks at inletting more than I do. Using the stock you have, removing the bedding and assembling the rifle to check the fit and find out how much material needs to be removed, you will find that the entire job can be done with a few blocks of wood and sandpaper. All it takes is long strokes with the grain and patience. Lots of patience. Plus you will get an intimate knowledge of your rifle, which is always a good thing. If you can, go ahead and post some pictures of what you are dealing with. There are many folks on this forum who are highly skilled and talented (I am not among them) that will be more than happy to walk you through it and help you make your rifle something to be proud of. And remember, we are "On the Cheap" here and would hate to see you throw money at a problem that is easily solved. Just IMHO and my $0.02 worth.

[ChrisHarris]

I bought this one because it's a fairly nice piece of wood.

I guess it's 6-of-1 and half-dozen of the other.  I can spend more $$ and start with a fresh stock from Pecetonia, or do as you suggest and get busy sanding on the one I have.

Need another drink.......... 

[30coupe]

I bought this one because it's a fairly nice piece of wood.

I guess it's 6-of-1 and half-dozen of the other.  I can spend more $$ and start with a fresh stock from Pecetonia, or do as you suggest and get busy sanding on the one I have.

Need another drink.......... 

Just keep in mind, drinking will do little to improve your woodworking ability. 

Seriously, I would at least make an attempt at getting the bedding material out. That will be the most difficult thing you have to do...no skill involved really just a PITA! Once that stuff is out, as hotfxr said, you are a few sheets of sandpaper away from having the rifle you were dreaming of.

[ChrisHarris]