Sighting in

[Lightning Ross]

I am new to front stuffers and this site. I have shot my used newly acquired 50 Hawkin .About 30 rounds worth to get acquainted with loading and handling.I am shooting 490 round balls and will be staring out with 50 grains by volume with Pyrodex 2f I will start at 25 yards. Should I start out with a dead on hold or a six Oclock hold as I do  with my pistols. What is recommended. It has a buckhorn sight.

[old salt]

First I would spend the time and effort to see how it groups and what the best powder, patch, ball combination is.
By this I mean I would start with the .490 ball and 50 gr of powder form a bench shooting 3-5 balls and see what kind of a group you are getting useing the same point if aim. If your grouping is not as tight as you think it should be, add 5 gr and start over. You may have to vary the patch tickness.
You find that your rifle will tell you what it wants to shoot. You will fing that every muzzleloader has its own sweet spot.

[Lightning Ross]

I am limited to pyrodex 2f untill I scrape up enough mad money for a 10lb order from powder inc . I will split the order up between 2f and 3 f . I load blanks for my cowboy mounted shooting blanks. As I have read 2f for 45cal and over 3 f for under. I have read on some other forums of some guys loading 3 f in 50 cal. Is that an option? In the small hand book I have it does not list any 3f loads.

[Red Badger]

I use 3f in all my BP firearms from my .54 Early Lancaster "Patience" to my Pedersoli 12 guage Coach gun...  and all my pistols.  In the 54 I use a 55 gr charge with my rb and 75 gr with my Lee R.E.A.L conicals  I would sugest starting with a 50 grain charge of 3F  when you get real black - adjust up and down till she shoots where you want her too

[pilgrim]

     From what little I know, being new also to muzzleloading,   with a used rifle,  we can assume that it has already been sighted in, but not always, as with my 58's.    The rear buckhorn, is it fixed, stationary or is it adjustable in elevation and windage?  If it is fixed, try aiming dead on and see where it hits.  When shooting a new to me rifle, I always take a large piece of brown paper, 4ft square and place on backstop, then place  target in center of paper to see where the bullet hits.  This eliminates alot of frustration, trying to figure where the bullet hit if not on the target.   Then adjust sights and point of aim.  I prefer to have the sights set to aim at 6 o'clock to hit dead center on the X.   This way I dont blot out  the target  with the front sight.  If it is a fixed rear sight, then the front sight has to be filed to adjust for elevation   But be careful when using a file.  A little at a time, easy to remove metal but impossible to add metal.    Take whatever I say with a grain of sallt,  I am trying to help but am also new to this sport.

[mongrel]

As far as where to hold, dead-on or at six o'clock, that's a matter of personal preference and also the type of shooting you intend to do. All my shooting is done for simple fun and as practice for hunting, so I hold dead-on. If you're more comfortable and accustomed to the six o'clock hold and for your type of shooting that works for you, then that's the way you should do it.

3F can be used in any caliber you like. The ".45 and under" rule or guideline is due to 3F being a finer-granulated powder than 2F, so that in larger calibers if you were to duplicate maximum 2F loads, using 3F, you could, theoretically, run into trouble with excessive pressure. The potential for a problem is increased by the fact that not all barrels of a given caliber are the same dimensions or quality. There are 13/16" diameter .50 caliber barrels in use out there. On the other hand a 1" diameter .50 caliber tube is found on certain CVA, Italian, and T/C models. Obviously, if an individual used loading data for 2F and a 1" diameter .50 caliber barrel, treated the recommended maximum loading as a minimum starting point (because that's what some do), substituted 3F, and loaded the seriously overcharged result down a 13/16" diameter barrel -- things might happen. The key here is to use common sense. The only difference between 3F and 2F is that you'll get a somewhat larger amount of 3F when loading by volume; it's not like with modern cartridges, where various powders are drastically different from one another, and the use of the wrong type of powder can in some cases result in a ruined gun and possibly a ruined shooter or bystander as well.

There's nothing wrong with pyrodex, especially if that's all you have. Just in case anyone has told you that, as a black powder substitute, it doesn't require the cleaning after shooting that black powder does -- that's BS. There are way too many rusted-out barrels out there that prove it. I prefer real black powder, and in fact since I shoot almost entirely flintlocks I don't have a choice, but percussion guns generally don't require real black to work reliably. Pyrodex and similar substitutes are less volatile and as a result easier to store safely, meaning that any gun or sporting goods store, or any store with a sporting goods section, can keep them in stock, whereas black powder is subject to such strict storage and re-sale regulations that most stores won't fool with it. Pyrodex and similar powders therefore make this sport more accessible to someone who will be shooting percussion and for whom ordering real black powder isn't a realistic option.

Enjoy your shooting and keep us posted on the results. As you will quickly figure out, advice, encouragement, and applause are handed out in wholesale amounts on this site.

[Blackfeet]

As mentioned, the type of shooting and target type are very important in 6'o'clock sighting. Like with your pistols, the size of the target used when sighting in dictates how far from dead on sight -wise the gun will shoot to reach center. If most of your shooting will be on 6" round bullseyes at say 25 yards and the gun is then used on squirrels, a 6'o'clock head hold will put the ball over the mark at the same distance. Sometimes I forget this............ ..... so I use the smallest target that I can see for small bore and shoot dead on top of sight with the bigger bores

[Lightning Ross]

I shot two targets at 25 yards today. 10 shot groups off a bench. Both groups were 3inches tall by 21/2 inches wide. 3 inches low 3 inches to the right. 50 grains pyrodex 2 f. wads were burnt on outside edge a ring of black then clean where the ball set. I will have to get a new ramrod mine went south. Brass seating end  broke off. I dont think it was correct size anyway would not stay in under the barrel looked way to small to start with.

[Dogshirt]

If the leading edge of your patch is burning, you may want to consider a thicker patch. The .50 I reworked for a frien likes a
.495 ball with a .015 patch. A well patched ball should leave you with a patch you could pick up and use again. The burning may
indicate gases escaping. But as I've never shot Pyrodex, I do not know if this is common. A tight patch and ball can only help to tighten up groups.

[mongrel]

You didn't say what brand of Hawken you own. If it's a CVA or Traditions you'll need a 10mm (.360") rod; if it's a T/C or one of the Italian Investarms T/C clones such as the Cabela's or Navy Arms (among multiple others) a 3/8" rod is called for.

Most muzzleloading supply outfits sell synthetic ramrods of proper length and diameter for the various common models of gun, including the ones listed above. They tend to be a little pricey but they don't break and most are of a walnut-brown color that doesn't look half-bad. Or, you can get on Dixie Gun Works' website and order a rod and a couple of tips and make your own. They offer 3/8" rod stock in hickory and some unnamed hardwood; in a .360" rod your only option is the hardwood unless you want to work a hickory rod down to the slimmer diameter. I use the hardwood rods on the inexpensive guns I build and other than damage in shipping the guns or later user carelessness I haven't gotten feedback that they're inferior to traditional hickory.

[Rev]

Synthetic rods have one thing wrong with them (at least). They act like sandpaper on the cone of your barrel, at least so I have been told. Eventually the accuracy will deteriorate to the point the barrel will have to be re-coned. However, there is little or no danger they will ever break & puncture your hand while seating a ball. Don't ask me how I know the last part...

[flintboomer]

I shot two targets at 25 yards today. 10 shot groups off a bench. Both groups were 3inches tall by 21/2 inches wide. 3 inches low 3 inches to the right. 50 grains pyrodex 2 f. wads were burnt on outside edge a ring of black then clean where the ball set. I will have to get a new ramrod mine went south. Brass seating end  broke off. I dont think it was correct size anyway would not stay in under the barrel looked way to small to start with.

A ring of black is ok if there are no holes in the patch and the edge of the patch can look shredded. What you want is a good seal between the powder, bullet and barrel. Some like a really tight fit and others like a looser fit.
Are you using commercial prelubed patches? If so remember that you can go to other combinations if you go to an unlubed patch and lube it yourself, but commercial patches are a good place to get started. Most of us buy patch material by the yard and many of us make our own lubes. Changing patch material and lube can change your point of impact and that is why we suggest not worrying about the final sight in until you have a combination that gives you a group around an inch or less at 25 yds from a bench.

[Lightning Ross]

The patch had no holes and was pre lubed just frayed around the edges . The end of the barrel was actually greasy. Even after 20 shots. The rifle has no brand name. The barrel says Spain Springfield Hawkens 50 cal. Black powder only. Barrel measures 28 inches from tip to front of tang.It has 8 groves 1 inch wide.

[mongrel]

Synthetic rods have one thing wrong with them (at least). They act like sandpaper on the cone of your barrel, at least so I have been told. Eventually the accuracy will deteriorate to the point the barrel will have to be re-coned. However, there is little or no danger they will ever break & puncture your hand while seating a ball. Don't ask me how I know the last part...

Synthetic rods will eventually wear the rifling of a steel barrel, yes, but so also will a wood rod. All the gunk associated with loading and cleaning works its way into the surface of the rod, along with hickory rods being regularly oiled by their owners, and all this attracts dust and grime from the air and anything else it comes in contact with. To highlight how potentially destructive this can be -- at one school I worked in teachers were fond of using a form of thin glue to adhere pictures to their classroom windows. Silica particles and other crud in the building air bonded to the glue. Attempts to wipe the glue resulted in the window glass being minutely-scored by said particles and crud. The same microscopic debris is going to adhere to ANY form of cleaning or loading rod and wreak havoc on a bore -- over time.

Much of the emphasis put on the destructiveness of the synthetic rods (in my own opinion and in my experience being told about them by indignant "experts") has a lot to do with a dislike of the material; when I countered with the fact that a hickory rod over time is likewise hard on a barrel, a documented and scientifically-proven condition, this was heatedly denied. This doesn't change the fact that you're right, the synthetic rods are hard on barrels -- again, OVER TIME. They're just not the only guilty parties, is all, and the jury is out on really what kind of time frame and amount of shooting we're talking about, in which a barrel will be damaged to the point of accuracy suffering.

[mongrel]

The patch had no holes and was pre lubed just frayed around the edges . The end of the barrel was actually greasy. Even after 20 shots. The rifle has no brand name. The barrel says Spain Springfield Hawkens 50 cal. Black powder only. Barrel measures 28 inches from tip to front of tang.It has 8 groves 1 inch wide.

The made-in-Spain Springfield Hawken was marketed (if I recall correctly) by either Cabela's or Bass Pro, and is made in the same factory as and identical to the CVA and Traditions lines. You'll need a .360" diameter rod, whether one bought ready-made or worked down from a 3/8" hickory rod.

Chuck a 3/8" rod into a drill and, going fairly slowly, rotate it while holding a piece of 80-grit sandpaper wrapped around it. Progress to 120 and then 220 paper as you get to finished dimensions. I stress going fairly slowly because, one, the paper can grab on a fast-spinning rod and at the very least road-rash the palm of your hand; and, two, the paper will get very hot very quickly. A glove is a good idea but also gives the paper something else to grab if it does decide to grab the rotating rod.