Conicals

[pilgrim]

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet#History                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      What is your favorite LEAD projectile (bullet),  other than round ball?   

     What Traditional type rifle do you shoot  this bullet in?

     What is the type and powder charge used?

     Reason is this your favorite bullet,  Range report etc. 

[pilgrim]

     I hope this does not cause problems.  I have recently become interested in shooting conicals.  we have all shot round balls in our Traditional rifles.  Yet conicals are also traditional, atleast from the early 1800's on. In my last range report it was mentioned about using REAL bullets.  I have shot the 380 grn REAL bullets in my CVA  Hawken 54 with 60 grn 2f.  Still need more range work on this light charge.  But wont  use heavy powder charge due to lightness of barrel.  Where as in the Lyman, I am confident that it can handle up to 100 grains 2f.  When comparing latest results using 415 grn 54 cal Maxi to a 177 grn 50 cal round ball, the groups at 50 yards are surprisingly close, if not identical.  The 380 grn REAL bullet in 54 cal, seems to just fall down hunter barrel.  But will try to see what the results are.  Since I am casting now, I have a mold for the 54 in 300grn, 380 grn REAL bullets with a 425 grn Maxi mold on the way.  Sure is alot cheaper to shoot.  Not to mention the enjoyment of making the bullets myself. To shoot conicals, IS it mandatory to have a fast twist barrel?  So far I am very pleased with the Lyman GP Hunter 1 in 32" twist barrel.  It is so easy to load with LUBED conical,  put in powder followed by conical, prime and shoot.  Should be  good for hunting.   Only problem I have encountered is heavy fowling from powder.  ust clean barrel every 5 shots.  Any suggestions on HOW to cut down on powder fouling?I have recently gone over to shooting a caplock.  But with the Lyman flintlock I had a great time at the range on Thursday.  Fired 30 maxi balls, with only one misfire.  That was because I didnt follow my rule of checking powder using  flash hole pick.  Also have close to 60+ shots off same French Amber flint.  Try that with a caplock.  I know, I am comparing apples to oranges again.     

     

[Hanshi]

I've always thought of conicals as being more "modern" projectiles thus I've never used them except to fire a few at a target to see what they would do.  I may be misinformed but I don't know of any conicals being used until after the 1840s.  Since I don't do "modern" I stick exclusively with the prb.  In my experience and opinion conicals are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[Blackfeet]

I  In my experience and opinion conicals are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Not so sure that I would agree with that part. In a .54 the maxiball is almost twice as heavy as the PBR at just under an ounce of lead and when shooting at the big stuff, mass can matter. On a smaller scale, the .32 maxi makes a fine coyote size critter gun with 105 grs versus  a 47gr ball.

For a shooter with limited rifles this adds a lot of versatility.

Not to mention that they make nice round holes in targets.

I shoot mostly PRB because I am a lead miser but have molds for both.

[Hanshi]

They do make nice, round holes.  All things considered they certainly do penetrate better at all ranges.  They are better at breaking big bones, too, I would think.  They're very accurate in some guns.  I even got acceptable accuracy in two 1-66" twist rifles.  And sometimes you pretty much do better using them.

However!  Penetration with prb has never been a problem in my hunting; through and through is the norm.  Accuracy, even in 1-48" bores, usually went to the prb.  If you're a miser cheapskate like me the ball has it and you can carry more of them.

Though this is only MHO, I am always right.  Don't believe me?  Just ask my mother.

[pilgrim]

     Thankyou Hanshi and Blackfeet for your input.  I almost wish now that I had not asked these questions.  At the time it seemed a good idea. I understand and agree with what you said about patched roundball.  Everyone Ive ever known that shoots traditional bp,  shoots prb for hunting.  If its not broke, WHY fix it.   I am a curious old fart. Some times curiosity  is a bad thing.   Thanks again for your input. 

[Blackfeet]

Our opinions are just that, only opinions. And a lot of them are only based on others opinions.

I think that it is great that you are doing it exactly the way that you are. The best way to formulate your own opinion is by the doing of things yourself rather than by

shying away from something because others poo poo it, not that Hanshi is wrong or even against it in reality.

Actually I can speak for myself here by saying that you are asking a lot of questions that I am gaining insight from on a regular basis.

I hope that someone can address your question about the fouling issue.

Most times curiosity is a good thing so please remain a curious old fart.

Seriously Dennis, please do not stop asking the questions. There are many people here who may be too shy to ask questions or haven't thought to ask a particular question and gain good information from the

answers. I myself have never shot much for conicals and have been following your efforts with great interest.

[Blackfeet]

Our opinions are just that, only opinions. And a lot of them are only based on others opinions.

I think that it is great that you are doing it exactly the way that you are. The best way to formulate your own opinion is by the doing of things yourself rather than by

shying away from something because others poo poo it, not that Hanshi is wrong or even against it in reality.

Actually I can speak for myself here by saying that you are asking a lot of questions that I am gaining insight from on a regular basis.

I hope that someone can address your question about the fouling issue.

Most times curiosity is a good thing so please remain a curious old fart.

Seriously Dennis, please do not stop asking the questions. There are many people here who may be too shy to ask questions or haven't thought to ask a particular question and gain good information

from the answers. I myself have never shot much for conicals and have been following your efforts with great interest.

[Hanshi]

It really doesn't matter because either will work just fine.

[gordy]

         The only time I.ve shot conicals was in a ROA. So I can,t offer any words of wisdom about conicals. One item that might help reduce the fouling would be to use a wad under the bullet. I imagine you are aware that the breech preasure goes up considerbly and most Mfgs. have reccomended limits on the powder charges and grade of powder. As to the use of conicals in history , the jury is still out. Have fun testing , but do be cautious.

                                                 

[William]

It isn't mandatory to have a fast twist barrel in order to shoot conicals but it will be more accurate.  I tried conicals in my .54 Lyman barrel because I was curious as to how they would do, plus I figured that the extra weight would be better at killing game than RB, but that was when I was just starting out.  Now I have the upmost confidence in the PRB and it's ability to shoot accurately and take a deer or hog if I do my part and place it in the right spot.  One thing that I like about conicals is the ease of loading in the field where you don't have a rifle stand or shooting bench, so for a quick follow-up shot they are great.  Since my 50 cal GPH barrel was included free along with the Cabelas Hawken I bought a few years ago, so naturally I wanted to try several different types an weights of lead conicals.  I found that it is wonderfully accurate using the 250 grain Lee REAL bullets, a lubed fiber wad and 95 grains of 3f Goex.  I can tear out the center of the target at 75 yards using this combination, but the recoil doesn't lend itself to all day shooting very well.  Because I have cut this barrel down to 26 inches it makes for a very handy rifle to use while hunting in the thick cedars here in Texas where you would be lucky to get any shot over 40 yards, thus the increased drop of the conical compared to a RB doesn't become much of a factor.

[pilgrim]

    I did try a 1/2 fiber wad, and also a card wad, over the powder.  I did not lube the wad.  I will melt down some wonder lube and soak the fiber wads and see  how that works.  I figure that in 2 weeks I go to final bp shoot of year.  I will be using all patch round ball in the Tradition 50 cal flintlock and also the CVA 54 cal cap lock.   I will only use the 54 gphunter for practice with maxi balls and REAL bullets.  Have to get crackin with the lead pot.  Have alot of casting to do.  Thanks again to all for you valued input. 

[flintboomer]

I mostly hunt with a TC Renegade .54 cal 26 inch barrel. It doesn't like prb at more than 45 gr so I have always used Maxi or REAL in it and they work very well on deer and elk.
As far as the hunting I have done with other calibers and patched ball I used a .40 for a while but consider it too light for mule deer and too heavy for squirrels, the .50 worked fine for deer and i never got anything when I carried a .45.

[pilgrim]

     Thankyou William and flintboomer for you input and help.

[Red Badger]

I've been debating weather to weigh in on this one or not and decided to say just this much:  I do have a LEE R.E.A.L. mold and have shot them through "Poacher" my .54 Cabellas Hawkins... the main reason for that was to have something a bit heavier than PRB when contemplating Elk hunting in Colorado.  I have no doubt that PRB would do the job but knowing my ability to hit what I aim at I figured more bulit mass might not be a bad thing...