Roundball problem

[rusticbob]

Wow, was I disappointed, I cast some .490 pure lead roundballs, went to the range today with my T/C Hawken, 50 cal. First.shot at 50 yards was dead center, I was surprised, but cautious. Next ten shots went all over.the target, 2' spread? I cleaned between shots with T/C NUMBER 7 bore cleaner. 60 grains of Pyrodes RS, and Dynamit Noble caps.Just to sure the.rifle was OK, I loaded up my hunting load of 80 grains Pyrodex and a CVA Powerbelt, 290 grains. Every shot went in the black at 50 yards? Any suggestions? I know the rate of twist is 1 in 48in , which is not optimal for round.balls, but it should shoot better than this? Any help would be appreciated.

[Dogshirt]

1 in 48 is just fine for RB. You will have to find the load that will work. Start with 50 gr (I would use REAL black powder, but your choice) and go up 5 gr until you find the load that your rifle likes. Barrel harmonics dictate that you must tailor your load to the rifle. Even with cartridge rifles different loads will give widely varied results.

[William]

1 in 48 is just fine for RB. You will have to find the load that will work. Start with 50 gr (I would use REAL black powder, but your choice) and go up 5 gr until you find the load that your rifle likes. Barrel harmonics dictate that you must tailor your load to the rifle. Even with cartridge rifles different loads will give widely varied results.

Just for what it's worth, we don't discuss those plastic skirted projectiles on this forum.  Having said that, I second what Dogshirt suggests and will add that of my three ML's, my .54 Lyman barreled caplock is my most accurate and has a 1:48 twist rate.  Accuracy, be it better for a patched round ball (PRB) or a lead conical is more dependent on the depth of the rifling rather than how fast or slow it turns the bullet, within limits.  I would try going up to a .495 RB and a .015 patch thickness, or maybe a .012 if you can find it.  Your patching material must be 100% cotton, linen or silk but if it's got the least bit of synthetic fiber then your accuracy and more importantly, your consistency will suffer.   Also, you don't mention what you are using for patch lube.  The type of lube and the amount you use will impact accuracy and consistency greatly as well.
Lastly, change what you are doing in between shots.  Bore cleaner is for the end of the day when you're done shooting, not for in between shots.  Swabbing, which is simply down and up once, is what you should be doing and while when I'm at the range I do swab the bore in between shots, not everyone needs to.  Only when accuracy drops off or when loading becomes difficult do you need to swab the bore.  I was using way too much bore cleaner to swab with when I started out and the extra liquid on the cleaning patch was contaminating my powder charge.  I now use cotton flannel for cleaning patches that are lightly dampened with 91% rubbing alcohol.  Down and up, then either turn the patch over and swab again or just throw it away.

Hope this helps.

[pilgrim]

    William,   would it help to just increase the patch thickness, instead of needing to get a .495 mold?

[rusticbob]

Thanks for all the suggestions. First I think I'll try a thicker patch, that should hopefully allow the round ball to engage the rifling and get a spin. I'm using Ox-Yoke Originals .015 Wonder Patch. They are all cotton and lubed with Wonder Lube. Maybe I'll try a double patch?

[Patocazador]

Go to an .020" patch (pillow ticking is best) first. If it's real tight, that's good. I use mink oil or olive oil for a patch lube.

Do like Dogshirt suggested and start with 50 gr. and go up. I like 3F real black powder in a .50 cal.  72 gr. is the most efficient charge for your caliber/barrel length but that doesn't mean it is the most accurate.

I swab with spit, if necessary. I just put a clean patch in my mouth while shooting and maybe chew on it a bit. That's enough moisture. As William said, once down and up, no pumping.

[rusticbob]

I appreciate the input and I will try the pillow ticking if I can steal one of my wife's old pillows, although I will be sure to look for all cotton. I do have real black powder, and I will try it, 2 lbs of Geox ff, and one lb of Swiss 1f. I was just trying to use up some old pyrodex. I am determined to make this gun a good roundball shooter. Many moons ago I shot rb out of a T/C Renegade 56cal smoothbore, and if I remember correctly it shoot rb great out to about 75 yards. Has anyone tried Dutch's system? Sounds plausible on paper, but I don't want to get sidetracked.

[William]

    William,   would it help to just increase the patch thickness, instead of needing to get a .495 mold?

Yes, increase the patch thickness.  The thing about store bought patches is that you never know how long they have sat around and many times when old the material starts coming apart.  That definitely changes accuracy and will frustrate you beyond belief.  I buy mattress ticking at the local fabric store which mics to .018 mildly compressed and is 100% tight weave cotton.  What they call pillow ticking is not as tightly woven but more importantly, is an 80/20 cotton/polyester.  Melting a synthetic in your bore will absolutely ruin the next 4 days for you when it comes to trying to get that tar-like crap out of your bore.

[rusticbob]

Iwill try to find mattress ticking, do you actually bring your calipers?

[Hanshi]

Iwill try to find mattress ticking, do you actually bring your calipers?

It's goooood stuff.  I measure it at .024".

[Dogshirt]

I really like these patches from October Country. They come in a variety of thicknesses, and come in lubed form if you prefer. The price is reasonable, and shipping for an order of patches will be $3.50-$5.00, depending on how many you get. And checking them with my micrometer, they are what they say they are.

http://www.octobercountry.com/october-country-dry-daisy-shooting-patches/

[flintboomer]

My luck with prelubed patches has never been very good,they usually blow apart and destroy my accuracy.
I make my own and lube them myself which saves me $$. I mostly use striped pillow ticking (100% cotton) and lube with either spit or hand lotion depending on the gun and I never clean between shots unless I'm using more than 50 grains. I might clean at the end of a 5-10 shot string but I might not.

[rusticbob]

Thanks to Dutch, I now feel confident shooting roundballs. I bought into his system, lock, stock and barrel. What a gentleman.
I now shoot a 50 Traditions with 1in 66 twist, made a great gun shoot even better. Even with open sighths I can cloverleaf the ..490 balls from the bench. I just cast over 400 roundballs, weighed them all and am starting to practice offhand shooting for the Southern Vermont Traditional Biathlon in Manchester  VT in February. This is my first experience with roundballs, and I love it!

[hotfxr]

Congratulations, you are now officially addicted to Black Powder. Keep on experimenting with your loads and powder. It's all fun.

[beowulf]

that 1 in 48 twist was what most original hawken rifles were !