Muzzleloader kits

[Tim Ault]

The rifle I just finished was sorta kinda a kit but not really as I got the pre carved stock first  and bought or made everything else I needed second . Actually for me doing my first built froma pre carved and inletted stock was a good learning experience as all inletting  was sorta in the right general location . After I started placing parts where they were supposed to go I realized  just how important and why the correct location of everything crucial and if one part is off a little something else is affected . Now this is coming from a guy that has never did any wood working at all I'm a steel and metal guy as a living not wood so after 3 plus months of head scratching and cussing now and then I figured things out enough to assemble / build a half respectable looking and functiong rifle. Like I said for me a kit was a great teaching tool as to what where and how things go together and are co dependent on many of the other parts being in the correct place.  On saying that if I had to do it over again I wouldn't shy away from a pre carved stock but I would not use a pre inlet one .   

[ArchieR]

An old post, but a very good one.

I just ordered my first components kit - from TVM. I had not read this before I ordered, but still I am basically of the same mind.

I am really looking forward to the challenge, and I think the approach may have some validity. Unlike a professional gunsmith or someone who produces rifles for sale and profit, I don't have a timeline or the pressure that accompanies it. I have the luxury of being able to take my time with this and to not get in over my head until I understand what I'm doing. To that end I picked up the PA Longrifle Building book, and a couple other reference tomes for the art. This forum and the knowledge here and elsewhere from smiths is a huge benefit to guys like me that want to be involved in the art, but really don't know where to start, where an apprenticeship is not available.

As a relative novice to gunsmithing, but not to woodworking or metal work (mainly defarbing muskets and doing rifle refinishes and restorations), I am using this build to learn as much as anything, because I am fascinated by it and love longrifles. Also, I have the advantage of a very good friend who is an accomplished modern smith and who has offered me his shop and his expertise to help out if needed. He's never worked a longrifle - he's a bolt gun guy through and through - but he knows his stuff and is kind of fascinated with the idea as well.

I'm pretty sure this won't be my first build, but I felt that starting with a blank would not be the best route for me. I am just not there yet confidence-wise. Another issue is that the only place I want to use power tools will be drilling the pins and the tang/trigger/lock bolts (I don't know how to do it otherwise). Other than that I would like to do it as old school as possible.

Even this one thread has been a good learning tool for me. Issues with thin wood and backchanneling the barrel for fit are good tips and I can use them.

I gotta start somewhere, so we'll see what happens.

Thanks for posting this.

Rich

[hotfxr]

I hear you and applaud your effort. I am an inveterate tinkerer. I am the one that took apart the new vacuum that the parents brought home to see how it worked and also the one that too apart the door in the brand new 1971 Ford wagon to see how the electric doors worked. I still have the scars from that one. I have built two rifles from scratch so far and have three more in various beginning stages before I got sidetracked by building the cannon. I hope that I will be able to get back to them sooner rather than later but with my short attention span, later seems more likely. However, I could have never done it without the constant support and advice from members here at this forum. I have a bit of a stubborn bone that causes me to sometimes ignore some of that advice and barge on ahead on my own, then when I owned up to what I had just screwed up, that advice and support was still there. Why am I throwing this out? If you ever get stuck in any part of your build, there are folks here that can guide you on the right path. And this valuable info is given freely and willingly, all you gots to do is ask. So if you run across a stumbling block or want to know why something works the way it does, do not hesitate to ask. Good luck in your new project and don't forget to take pictures.Lot's and lot's of pictures.

[Jamie]

Interesting!  I am on the verge of ordering a (sort of) kit from Chambers, but I've managed to avoid the problems noted above.  I say a (sort of) kit because I'm getting all the parts that come in the usual kit, but not the pre-carved stock.  I'll be getting a stock blank that I plan to carve myself.  I was looking forward to that part already, now I'm even happier to go this route.

Although I have to add that while I was researching suppliers, Chambers was always rated as the best, with top quality components and service.  This thread is the only negative report I've read - I wonder if it was an anomaly.

Jamie

[mongrel]

Looking back on it, and re-reading the entire thread -- I would not classify my original report as negative, so much as honest. Jim Chambers is too straight-up a person to deliberately mislead anyone or to continue allowing people to be misled by getting the wrong impression of what completing one of his kits entails. Most retail sites that sell this sort of kit do mention that there are no instructions, and that barrel, breechplug, and lock inletting will have to be completed. They don't often mention the potential difficulty of doing so. First off, many of their customers won't find it difficult at all, and secondly I firmly believe that, in cases like this, a potential buyer has a responsibility to honestly evaluate not only the potential difficulties of the project, but his or her own capabilities. Having an experienced mentor is also a huge help.

One thing I mentioned in my original post, that made all the difference in the non-assembly of the kit I was discussing, was that the owner had been intimidated by what he had bought and had allowed it to sit for a long time. Wood warped and changed its dimensions. This was 100% HIS fault and not that of the seller of the kit. So, yes, in a sense this constitutes an anomaly, but one over which the seller of the kit has no control and for which he shouldn't be held responsible.

[ArchieR]

Looking back on it, and re-reading the entire thread -- I would not classify my original report as negative, so much as honest.

....the owner had been intimidated by what he had bought and had allowed it to sit for a long time...

I agree completely. It is good information.

I've seen a number of postings elsewhere from guys who bought component kits thinking it was akin to a "snap together" model. Somehow they thought were actually saving hundreds of dollars by just having to turn a couple screws, sand a buttstock and stain it and maybe blue a barrel. Once they see what "kit" actually means for one of these kinds of longrifles (and the reason they are much less expensive than the built and finished ones), they vapor lock. They didn't count on hundreds of hours of work to complete it. They don't know where to start. 

That's one of the reasons I came here. Guys like you, and a few others around, who are experienced builders, know what it takes because you have developed skills, experience and success with it. That kind of advice and experience is worth more than money to rookies like me who want to do it the right way and enjoy the process. 

Keep your powder dry.

Rich