Wondering what i need for cleaning and shooting a .50 caliber Renegade Hunter?

[isaacdavis1214]

So the ram rod will work as a cleaning rod just fine i am assuming?I believe i will use the .50-.58 cal cleaning patches in my gun just because they are labeled for that caliber,although i might switch to the .40-.49 caliber patches later on.Also i am just curious but about how big is a .50 caliber lead ball compared to modern bullets?Is it the equivalent of a modern 9mm or .45 in size?

[Red Badger]

Nope, a modern .45 round is still .45 cal and a .50 cal is still a .50 cal the only real difference is the weight of the projectile, its shape, and what it is made from.  Modern bullets DO NOT WORK in a traditional ML so don't try it. You can get away with some of them in the new unmentionable muzzleloaders but we don't talk about them here 

[Tim Burns]

Just my 2 cents worth - but I believe that OX Yoke wonder patches are the best thing going. I shoot my TC Renegade and my TC Pennsylvania hunter with them - I believe the most shots was 26 at the range -NO Wiping Between shots and NO Cleaning until the next day, NO Problems! Ran out of .490 balls so we had to quit. I use a 54 cal prelubed patch on both my .50 cal rifles and swear by this product - but it may not be welcome at all shoots. I use a .36 cal on my .32 rifle - You get the idea, I hope, one size over what caliber you are shooting. NO effect on accuracy as opposed to the proper size patch or cutting at the muzzle each time. Since I live close I use the following supplier, i buy here always...http://www.logcabinshop.com/
Hope this helps!   Tim

[isaacdavis1214]

Thanks for the link Grey,that looks like a great store for Muzzleloading.I'm just wondering how much is shipping?I would never use a modern bullet in a muzzleloading rifle EVER.I was just curious how big it is compared to a 9mm or .45 caliber bullet,i am assuming obviously that the .50 cal is bigger.I understand it is a different shape of course.

[old salt]

The difference in size between a 45 cal and 50 cal is 0.05 inch. The 9mm is approximately 0.353 inch. Hope this helps.

[flintboomer]

Remember: 1 caliber is .01 or 1/100 of an inch. 50 caliber is 1/2 inch or .50 inch. a .490 ball is 1/100 of an inch less than an exact 1/2 inch to allow for a patch. 45 caliber is 45/100 inch and 9mm is an undersized .38 at about .35 inch.

Now for the confusing part: many pistol calibers (like the .38 and the .380) are actually the measure of the outside diameter of the case mouth. 

For a power comparison the .45 auto would APROXIMATELY compare to a light target load in the 50 caliber rifle. The .45 auto was loaded to roughly equate to reduced power loads in the .45 colt round and the original .45 colt round was loaded with about 40 gr powder. If I remember correctly the original load was considered too powerful and reduced to around 30-35 grains. 1 grain is 1/7000 of a pound. The .490 ball weighs about 175 gr and bullets for either of the colt .45s are about 240-250 gr. I don't shoot .45 colt or .45 auto so the bullet weight is aproximate and I have no problem with someone giving more exact figures.

[isaacdavis1214]

That's interesting.So a .50 caliber black powder rifle loaded with just 40-50 grains of powder is pretty powerful.I can imagine what it's equivalent would be loaded with 110 grains of powder.

[Red Badger]

lets just put it this way... 1500 lb elk -175 yards (from 54 cal traditions rifle) + 100 gr 3f powder = meat on table....

[isaacdavis1214]

Wow,i am assuming you can hunt virually anything in North America with a .50 cal?I know the 1500 Elk you took was with a .54,but i am assuming the .50 would work just as well.Although you might have to be a little closer?What is a .50 suited for as hunting goes?I am assuming Deer?I can't see someone using it to hunt stuff like squirrels,rabbits ect.,not saying it isn't possible of course.Great shot by the way,175 yard shot and you still hit it  i hope to be that great of shot someday.

[mongrel]

The .50 caliber is primarily a deer caliber, with elk possible if you're a good shot and careful of the shots you take. It doesn't allow a lot of margin for error on an animal of that size. It's a fine black bear caliber but for any of the larger species with claws and teeth you'd better have more gun and something in the way of a backup gun. Plenty of grizzlies were killed with muzzleloaders in the .50 caliber class, but the members of the Lewis and Clark Expedition, armed mainly with .54 caliber rifles and a number of them quite good shots, decided they'd had quite enough of grizzlies after the third or fourth run-in with them. Also, I say "plenty of grizzlies were killed" but more than one unfortunate hunter found out that what qualified as a "big bore" back east (like a .50 caliber) only annoyed ol' Ephraim.

The .32 and .36 calibers are small-game calibers, suited for most anything a .22 LR works for. The .40 is a mid-sized caliber, a bit large for squirrel and rabbit, a bit small for a lot of deer in this country, but possibly the most inherently accurate caliber going. The .45 compares in its purposes to cartridges like the .243 Winchester, 6mm Remington, or .257 Roberts -- plenty for whitetailed deer in the hands of a good shot, a bit undersized when you go after big western mulies. The .50 caliber equates pretty well to the .30-06 and similar rounds, the .54 to cartridges in the .338 Winchester class. The .58 and larger bores can be loaded down a bit for work on deer, or loaded up to the point that they'll reliably anchor the biggest North American game if the shooter does his part.

Please bear in mind, when I compare muzzleloading calibers to cartridges, I'm referring to their application, NOT to the ranges you can expect them to reliably kill game at. Also, if you plan to hunt it's adviseable to disregard everything everyone here says about the ranges at which they've killed elk, deer, and other animals. Not that they're being dishonest about it, but only that what counts is what YOU can do with your gun, which is something you can only determine by going out, shooting it, and honestly evaluating your skill level.

Have fun and be safe.

[SierraMan]

Good knowledge and wise advice, Mongrel.

[isaacdavis1214]

Thanks Mongrel,i understand with muzzleloaders generally you have to get closer to the game in which you want to take.For a .50 caliber muzzleloader to compare to a 30-06 i am surprised that more people don't use muzzleloaders.For one they are in my opinion atleast beautiful guns,cheap to shoot and maintain,and the history and mechanisms behind them are just a bonus.Once again Mongrel that was a great explanation and a wealth of information.

[Red Badger]

I aso agree with Mike, I woould not have taken the shot on the elk but was in a bad spot and could not get any closer and he was broadside to me giving a great target picture.  I would not do this on an average hunt but this was my last day and I really needed the meat. 

Also I wonder of all the individuals who used a .50 on a grizz, how many did not survive to tell the tale after getting the critters attention?   

[mongrel]

I aso agree with Mike, I woould not have taken the shot on the elk but was in a bad spot and could not get any closer and he was broadside to me giving a great target picture.  I would not do this on an average hunt but this was my last day and I really needed the meat. 

Also I wonder of all the individuals who used a .50 on a grizz, how many did not survive to tell the tale after getting the critters attention?   

Nothing wrong with having taken the shot -- you made an educated decision based on what you knew you could do with that rifle. I have no doubt, also, that had the shot failed to put the animal down, you'd have been out as long as it took to follow it up and finish the job. You're precisely the sort of shooter who CAN push the limits and still be responsible. My cautions are aimed at the guy who's new to the sport and has no way of knowing better -- or the one who absolutely OUGHT to know better but proceeds to try it, anyway -- and will go out and take too long a shot because someone else said it could be done. There'd be a whole lot less wounded animals if  we each did our shooting according to our OWN abilities and put the time in to have an honest idea what those abilities are.

[isaacdavis1214]

I agree Mongrel,you should only take shots that are in the capabilities of what you can shoot and kill.If i ever do go hunting i will practise and wait for the perfect shot before i fire,i am a big animal lover so if i ever do go hunting i hope that it's death will be instant.I know that is most likely not always possible,a funny thing i read on another site (can't remember the name,i'm sure this has been discussed before.) is they were talking how a patch and ball is ineffective at killing animals as quick as Sabot rounds.I have heard arguments for one or both,but from what i remember in the Civil War when a round ball would hit a soldier in the arm it would sometimes shoot it clean off!In my opinion something that can shoot a man's arm off will kill an animal quickly and efficiently.