Traditional Muzzleloading on the Cheap

Member’s Work Bench => General Gunsmithing => Topic started by: pilgrim on February 11, 2018, 12:39:54 AM

Title: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: pilgrim on February 11, 2018, 12:39:54 AM
     A few years ago I was at Dixon's Muzzleloaders shop and found a CVA Hawken  percussion rifle for sale.  What caught my eye was that it came with two barrels,  a ,50 and a .54.   Also look to be a presentation model.   I could not pass it up, since it would be my first caplock and the price was $150.00   This is now my favorite off hand rifle.  It is a dream to shoot and accurate.  If only I were steadier.

     A few minutes ago I was on Deer Creek's site and placed an order to make a complete rifle out of the spare 54 barrel.    Not  sure if I acted to quickly but it should be interesting,  since I am NO gunsmith,  by any stretch of the imagination.    I just can't see the 54 barrel just laying on the gun rack with no stock  etc.    Besides,  we still have another 5-6 weeks of winter and this will keep me occupied. 

    I still have a 54 Great Plains Hunter flintlock barrel,  that I occasionally  use in the Great Plains Flintlock,  and a XX G R Douglas .36 ca. percussion barrel   with no stock etc.  Who knows what will be next??   Although the Douglas barrel does fit into the  stock of the Cabelas 50 cal  with 1/66 rifling.  But prefer to leave this rifle as is.  It too is quite accurate,  if and when I   am steady. 
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Watauga on February 11, 2018, 01:11:37 AM
pilgrim Yes!  thmbsup  Sounds like a good project and something productive to do,.. since the Darned Groundhog got away again....And we have more winter to deal with.....
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Red Badger on February 11, 2018, 02:35:16 PM
So am I to understand your going to be carving a stock from a blank or is this a prefit stock and your just going to finish it up?  Either way... Pictures are requested  :mini-devil-28492:

Jim
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: pilgrim on February 11, 2018, 04:17:29 PM
     according to the Deere Creek website,  the stock is finished and includes the Butt Plate,  Nose Cap etc.  What I had to order to complete the rifle is the Trigger assembly,  Trigger Guard, barrel wedge, ramrod,  barrel tang and percussion lock and any needed screws etc.    Thankfully, Deer Creek carries a large inventory for CVA rifles. Sadly this cost more than the original rifle,  but at least I now will have two complete rifles.  If I don't like the finish on the stock,  I will sand it and do a new  finish.    So there will be no carving necessary,    since the last time I tried to carve  wood, turned into a BUTCHER job.  One needs to know their limitations.  And due to my ill temper I try to never push an issue.    Although I might try to carve on a piece of 2X4 to  learn how to carve.
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: redhawk on February 11, 2018, 07:12:26 PM
 Pilgrim, that is what I am in the middle of this winter.  I have practiced carving on a stock and inlaying some antler pieces first on two pistols I  picked up at the flea market.  Now I have worked up to a CVA squirrel rifle I have had for a couple of years.  Doing is learning is my policy.  The more you do something the better you get at it and the more you learn.  I have a few more things to get completed and I will finish the stock and barrel and get it together. I'll share some pictures when I get it together.   So try it you might find it is not as hard as you think it is. Take your time and be patient and you might be surprised how good it turns out.  The only person you have to please is yourself.  As long as you're happy that's all that matters.
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Hanshi on February 11, 2018, 08:23:33 PM
You made the right call, Pilgrim.  A barrel just laying around is close to worthless without its own stock.
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: pilgrim on February 11, 2018, 11:06:20 PM
Quote from: Hanshi on February 11, 2018, 08:23:33 PM
You made the right call, Pilgrim.  A barrel just laying around is close to worthless without its own stock.


    and since I don't live on a farm,  I do not need a spare percussion barrel to tighten wire fences.    ROFL
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Dogshirt on February 12, 2018, 06:26:53 PM
Quote from: pilgrim on February 11, 2018, 11:06:20 PM
Quote from: Hanshi on February 11, 2018, 08:23:33 PM
You made the right call, Pilgrim.  A barrel just laying around is close to worthless without its own stock.


    and since I don't live on a farm,  I do not need a spare percussion barrel to tighten wire fences.    ROFL

I do not live on a farm. I live on a RANCH. While it IS possible that farmers tighten fence wire with percussion barrels, a RANCHER will only use a flintlock barrel. ;D
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: hotfxr on February 12, 2018, 06:45:51 PM
Quote from: Dogshirt on February 12, 2018, 06:26:53 PM
Quote from: pilgrim on February 11, 2018, 11:06:20 PM
Quote from: Hanshi on February 11, 2018, 08:23:33 PM
You made the right call, Pilgrim.  A barrel just laying around is close to worthless without its own stock.


    and since I don't live on a farm,  I do not need a spare percussion barrel to tighten wire fences.    ROFL

I do not live on a farm. I live on a RANCH. While it IS possible that farmers tighten fence wire with percussion barrels, a RANCHER will only use a flintlock barrel. ;D

Those flatlanders just don't understand proper tool usage.  ROFL
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Dogshirt on February 12, 2018, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: hotfxr on February 12, 2018, 06:45:51 PM
Quote from: Dogshirt on February 12, 2018, 06:26:53 PM
Quote from: pilgrim on February 11, 2018, 11:06:20 PM
Quote from: Hanshi on February 11, 2018, 08:23:33 PM
You made the right call, Pilgrim.  A barrel just laying around is close to worthless without its own stock.


    and since I don't live on a farm,  I do not need a spare percussion barrel to tighten wire fences.    ROFL

I do not live on a farm. I live on a RANCH. While it IS possible that farmers tighten fence wire with percussion barrels, a RANCHER will only use a flintlock barrel. ;D

Those flatlanders just don't understand proper tool usage.  ROFL

thmbsup
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: William on February 13, 2018, 03:25:46 AM
Sounds like a project that I'd like to follow. dntn
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Watauga on February 14, 2018, 02:15:14 AM
Quote from: William on February 13, 2018, 03:25:46 AM
Sounds like a project that I'd like to follow. dntn

Yes thmbsup  With Pictures and Everything!!  pnic
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: pilgrim on February 14, 2018, 06:43:29 PM
      The package arrived from Deer Creek.  Will need to do some carving to fit the depth of the lock etc.  hdslp   The color  of the wood/finish is a light cinnamon color.  Not sure it will stay that way  since I prefer a darker stain.  In addition there will be some other carving needed to make everything fit flush.  But first I will need to partially assemble the stock and barrel.  This is  similar to my  CVA  Hawken but not identical.   Need to be sure  everything will match up before getting too involved.  Also will need to finish the brass parts to remove casting line and then polish. 

      Now I need to go slow and have patience.   [hmm]  This should be interesting.
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Winter Hawk on February 14, 2018, 07:22:04 PM
Yeah, go slow on the inletting.  Otherwise you may end up filling "oopsies" with colored Acraglass.  And don't ask me how I know!  rdfce

-WH-
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: pilgrim on February 15, 2018, 12:12:14 AM
      I checked the fitting of my barrel to the stock with the button tang in place.  As I see it,  further inletting  needs to be done to  properly seat the trigger plate,  so it can engage the lock trip arm. Also need to further inlet for the barrel wedge plates,  the button tang and the trigger guard.    Also need to a slight inlet to properly seat the barrel.  It may have been listed as a finished stock,  but it is far from finished and that is good.    Also will need to sand and restain the stock.   With the light color stain,  the wood grain does not show very well.  The stock has a nice grain to it,  just need to make them show themselves more.    Luckily I have a small set of  carving tools and inletting black  from a previous attempt.   

The patchbox and the butt plate only need polishing.   I will wait for a weekend to start on it and have no intention of rushing it just to screw it up.    I will try to get pictures of what I have so I can post  before and after   pictures.
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: hotfxr on February 15, 2018, 02:27:53 AM
Remember there was a reason my first scratch built long rifle was named "Patches". I made so many mistakes inletting that I left them all in and it just adds to the character of the rifle. It's a prime example of what happens when the builder really doesn't know what he is doing.
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: pilgrim on February 25, 2018, 02:21:34 AM
   I started  filing and polishing the brass trigger guard and the butt plate and patch box.  The only item that needed filing was the trigger guard.  It is slow going since I only do it when I feel like it.   Tonight I started the inletting.  But decided to read sections of "The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle",  by Chuck Dixon.    So  I stopped any and all inletting.  I ordered an  Exacto knife to outline the areas to be inletted so not to remove any wood on the stock other than in the needed area.  Then I got a ??Brilliant Idea??.    Instead of the 54 cal CVA barrel,  I am going to try to use the .36 caliber G R Douglas barrel.  So I  ordered a hooked breech tang.  Only problem is the Douglas barrel measures  .953125"  across the flats,  compared to the 15/15" barrel that measures .9375".  So I will need to lightly sand the barrel channel to get this barrel to fit properly.  But I would had to sand it anyway,  because the 15/16" barrel was also slightly tight.  Hopefully this will work,  because I have been looking into a 40-45 caliber rifle and really don't want to spend the $$$.  All I will need if this works out will be a bullet mold for the .36
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: pilgrim on February 28, 2018, 01:31:57 AM
    after carefully shaving wood from the existing inlet for the trigger,  I assembled the trigger and the lock into the stock.  Cocked the percussion hammer and pulled the set trigger and then pulled  the front trigger, NOTHING HAPPENED.  So  I removed the lock and checked the sear length in relation to the stock inletting.  Next I put some inletting black onto the tip of the sear and put the lock back into the stock.  Then removed the lock and sure enough,  there was a black dot.  So  I carefully used a  wood carving gouge and removed just a bit of wood where the black dot showed.   Then I reassembled the lock and the trigger onto the stock.  Pulled back on the rear trigger to set it,  then pulled the front trigger,  NOTHING HAPPENED AGAIN.  Then I started searching the net for "How a Trigger functions properly".    Again, nothing that I did not already know or think I knew. After removing the lock,  I  set the trigger to fire and put my finger into the area where the lock sear would be and then pulled the trigger.  I expected to feel a sharp snap on my finger,  NOTHING AGAIN.   Next I took out the trigger and decided to monkey with it.  The screw that holds the rear trigger spring was secure,  but out of curiosity I tried to tighten it further.  It did tighten a little. Then I reassembled the lock and the trigger into the stock and set the trigger to fire after cocking the hammer.  When I pulled the front trigger..  SUCCESS,  the hammer fell as it should.  It works now as it should using either the front trigger alone or using both triggers as a set trigger is used. 

    BUT  when I took the trigger apart I found something that has no Rhyme or Reason.  There is a rear trigger adjustment screw  That does nothing.  It is just there for looks or to fill the hole.   The hole is not even tapped all the way through.  I am assuming that the screw should in some way adjust the rear trigger,  by putting pressure on the under side of the rear trigger spring.   So  tomorrow I will contact Deer Creek and see  if they can help me.  The rear trigger is much to close to the front trigger to comfortably get my finger in the set it.  If  NO help then I will contact L & R concerning the trigger that  they list that is a possible replacement for the one I now have.

     What made me think this would be easy?????????   But then I am using parts from CVA and they stopped making Sidelocks,  so the parts I have are left overs or seconds.
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Winter Hawk on February 28, 2018, 02:15:22 AM
Try 2....

My Hodge-Podge rifle started out as a Deer Creek kit for the CVA Mountain Rifle.  I couldn't get along with the double trigger and finally removed the rear trigger altogether.  (Don't lose the little wire spring at the front of the trigger plate - it puts tension on the front trigger and without it the rear trigger won't set.)  After polishing the lock internals the trigger pull is light enough that I don't need the set feature.  I replaced the trigger guard with one from Track of the Wolf, I believe it was for the Leman rifle.  It gives the trigger a more balanced look, and gives room for a gloved finger.

-WH-

Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: pilgrim on March 02, 2018, 12:43:39 AM
  update on this project.  The hooked breech tang arrived and when I fitted it with the barrel, in the stock,   The barrel is a mismatch to the layout of the lock.  The lock plate is not made for a Snail.   It is off two ways.    But I do know that it fits into my Cabelas 50 cap lock stock.   So either I find an investarms stock  OR  I go to Dixon Muzzleloader Fair in July and see if I can get a precarved stock that will be a match??  There will be several people there that sell these items,   but will have to take the barrel along for a definate match and or advice from others there. 

     So it is back to the 54 barrel.  I sent off to Brownells for Plum Brown solution to plum brown the breech tang to try to match the barrel.  Also  my Exacto knife has arrived, so on Saturday I will start the inletting of the wedge plates.

     I have waxed the stock a couple times and the color of the stock is growing on me.  I dont know if it just me or what,  but the paste wax seems to be highlighting the wood grains,  so I will leave the color of the stock as is.  It is  the color of most Maple furniture I have ever seen.   

     As for the trigger,  I will leave it as is.  I tested it in the stock as if I were going to shoot and even though the rear trigger is a bit close to the front trigger,  it is doable. 
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Watauga on March 02, 2018, 08:03:17 PM
pilgrim  hdslp I see your Diabolical Plan! You are going to have to make lots of new smpkepoles, until you run out of parts!!! thmbsup  But you then keep buying More Parts!!  ROFL pnic chrrs
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: pilgrim on March 11, 2018, 06:26:27 PM
   here is a picture of the rifle,  still need to plum brown the barrel tang.  And decide whether I want the brass trigger guard to be finished in a Satin or polished finish.  Probably wont match the rest of the brass unless I polish it

     
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Hanshi on March 11, 2018, 08:49:55 PM
 fncg Uuuuhh...Make me one.  srndr
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: hotfxr on March 11, 2018, 11:57:33 PM
Looks good to me. Since our nearsighted short limbed leader is still too busy soaking up liberal left wing knowledge, you will have to send it out to me for testing. I should have it back to you in a few months or so.
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Red Badger on March 13, 2018, 04:45:59 AM
Quote from: hotfxr on March 11, 2018, 11:57:33 PM
Looks good to me. Since our nearsighted short limbed leader is still too busy soaking up liberal left wing knowledge, you will have to send it out to me for testing. I should have it back to you in a few months or so.
I ain't that busy.......    whipping   
Title: Re: CVA HAwken, 54
Post by: Dogshirt on March 13, 2018, 02:40:28 PM
Quote from: Red Badger on March 13, 2018, 04:45:59 AM
Quote from: hotfxr on March 11, 2018, 11:57:33 PM
Looks good to me. Since our nearsighted short limbed leader is still too busy soaking up liberal left wing knowledge, you will have to send it out to me for testing. I should have it back to you in a few months or so.
I ain't that busy.......    whipping

Then you must be SLACKIN'!  ;D