I have been toying around with the idea of building a rifle from scratch but didn't really think I could pull it off. Then I got a couple of back locks from mongrel and was thinking of making a new stock for a Sears Kentucky rifle kit that I bought without a lock. Now I have all the parts so its time to give it a try. Found a ripping of 8/4 walnut in my scrap wood bin, cut off a length and glued it together (don't tell mongrel) to accomodate the butt end. Then I traced out the profile of both the Lyman GPH and the Kentuckian.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a603/hotfxr/Jukar%2045/July26th002_zps5b8422a0.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/hotfxr/media/Jukar%2045/July26th002_zps5b8422a0.jpg.html)
The red is the Kentucky and the blue is the Lyman. I did not realize the drastic diffferences between the two. I like them both but after seeing them on wood, I am not too thrilled with the belly on the Lyman. A small thing I know, but then again it is the little things in life that makes us happy. Here is a picture of the lock:
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a603/hotfxr/Muzzleloader/Weekend%20projects/July26th004_zps0280fef9.jpg) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/hotfxr/media/Muzzleloader/Weekend%20projects/July26th004_zps0280fef9.jpg.html)
I am leaning towards the Kentucky at the moment, but I would like some input from people that have shot both styles before I make a decision. Thanks.
I like the belly myself, but you can use the same outline and use a straight edge to eliminate it. You aren't locked into it and it's an easy fix. Won't affect the structure of it at all.
And Mongrel ALREADY knows you glued it. :o
My very first build, I had no access to maple of proper thickness, so I cut a 10' maple plank in half and used yellow carpenter's glue and a LOT of clamps to create a 5' x 8" x 2" slab from which to cut my first-ever rifle stock. I have also used 1/8" thick cut-offs with matching grain to add the necessary thickness for lock and sideplate panels when the wood I had to work with just wasn't QUITE as much as I needed.
And, I glued more than one or two blanks together exactly as Hotfxr has done -- usually maple or birch pallet beams.
All this while learning my craft and coming to the point that I felt justified in buying purpose-cut stock blanks, or wood of proper dimensions to cut my own. And, I will say that a couple or a few pretty nice rifles came out of this making-do.
I think a whole lot more highly of a guy who cobbles together what he needs and makes do with what he has, and in the end makes it all work, than some newbie with his very high-and-mighty mentor strutting down the aisles of Commercial Row at Friendship, a Chambers kit in his hands and his nose in the air, as if by dropping $1000 without having yet sweated or stressed on what he refers to as his "first build" he has already exalted himself to a higher plane of existence. He'll end up with about the 10,000th cookie-cutter "Isaac Haines" and consider anyone a lesser form of life who doesn't have precisely exactly that same rifle.
Whoopie.
Carry on, Hotfxr, with a hearty thmbsup from me.
Edit to add:
If you have both actual stocks in your possession, go with the pattern that more-or-less feels best to you, and make note of the details about that pattern (say a too-bulky cheekpiece or a too-square forend -- or a belly to the lower profile of the butt) that you don't care for. Take what you like from either or both, modify or eliminate what you don't like, and do whatever else seems right and proper to your hand and eye as you shape your stock. Then take the finished rifle out and shoot the snot out of it, and discover what maybe needs further tweaking or doing differently, and this will be your incentive to build your NEXT rifle.
All I started out to do was build myself a longrifle, because I couldn't afford the commercially-made stuff and none of what was commercially-available struck me as right, anyway. That was it, all I was going to do -- build one rifle.
You see what has become of me....
good start, if you don't have one--or several, get a good book on rifle construction. Good luck & make us plenty a pic's. Tom
The project is on hold for a little while. I horse traded for a Sears & Roebuck Kentucky rifle kit missing a few pieces (mainly the percussion lock and some screws, pins, etc.) a while back and apparently the intricacies of shipping are a bit too much for my new friend to handle, so we are working on getting it here eventually. I just want some of the hardware and that 33" by 13/16" or 3/4" barrel in 45 cal. Rest assured that I will take lots of pictures and will be asking for a lot of advice.
fixr,
No matter what you build, or modify, remember that the only person that needs to be happy with the results is you. HC and PC are great but they don't shoot any better than what you like.
Mark
Quote from: Papa on August 01, 2013, 01:06:21 PM
fixr,
No matter what you build, or modify, remember that the only person that needs to be happy with the results is you. HC and PC are great but they don't shoot any better than what you like.
Mark
thmbsup thmbsup thmbsup 'SNTY"
Quote from: mongrel on July 28, 2013, 01:00:40 AM
And, I glued more than one or two blanks together exactly as Hotfxr has done -- usually maple or birch pallet.....................
I have also salvaged some of the best boards for small projects from pallet wood. I have worked in several stamping shops where the coils always were shipped on hardwood pallets. Most of them were useless 'Popple' but from time to time we got a run of walnut or maple that needed to be spared from the firewood pile. A lot of knife scales or pistol grips were produced
Which style stock do you feel more comfortable shooting? It ain't gonna be traditional so make it comfortable and add the features you like best. Heck you can even experiment a little!
As far as pallet wood being useful, here's what I did with a piece:
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo35/bogie_bucket/DSCN0350_zps110bb75f.jpg) (http://s359.photobucket.com/user/bogie_bucket/media/DSCN0350_zps110bb75f.jpg.html)
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo35/bogie_bucket/DSCN0351_zpsdf61ac55.jpg) (http://s359.photobucket.com/user/bogie_bucket/media/DSCN0351_zpsdf61ac55.jpg.html)
that knife is beautiful, great job on the scales
Thank you Mr Texasranger. Now the guy at my nephew's place of work seems kind of goofy huh? He told my nephew that piece of wood was trash and not good for anything. I think he called the lad dumb. HAHAHA! Just demonstrates that good stuff is all around you if you just look for it!
Bruce
I love those scales. It's always amazed me how you can get some fantastic looking parts out of wood that is destined for the burn pile. I think I am going with the long rifle style with a little more angle and depth on the wrist and bit lower comb without a cheek piece. when all the parts are organized I will start posting pictures.
Mr Fxr
do not discount a cheekpiece with a 2" plank. It can be done, my current project started with a nice plank 1 15/16" wide.
The widest spot on the cheek piece is 1 7/8 &) but with judicious measuring and careful shaping it can be done. Besides a cheek piece doesn't need to be prominent just well formed.
I agree with Bruce 100%, and if the buttplate you select is no more than 1 3/4" wide you don't even have to hold your tongue and squint just so as you're laying it out, to have ample room for a cheekpiece in a 2" thick plank. If you start looking at the wide variety of buttplates available from the various suppliers, you find that there are many plates with many different degrees of curve to them in the range of 1 3/8" to 1 5/8" width.
Of course it's easy for those of us who've built a number of rifles to sort of have it slip our minds, that the shaping of a cheekpiece in addition to the basic shaping of a buttstock can be a really nerve-wracking chore. If it weren't that they all use a combination of octagon-to-round, or round, tapered and often swamped barrels, which I charge extra to inlet, my labor rate for doing a fowler, fusil, or musket would be at least $25-$50 less than what I charge for the work on a traditional longrifle, for the simple reason the tapering flow of the main portion of the butt into the comb and wrist isn't disrupted by a sculpted chunk of wood raised some 1/4" to 1/2" more from the surface of the butt. Just visualize the lines and curves changing direction and shape, and the grain of the wood refusing to cooperate (which can happen even when the stock blank was chosen with grain flow and ease of shaping in mind), and leaving the cheekpiece off can start seeming like just the logical thing to do.
I didn't mention it earlier -- but, were it me having glued the lower portion of the butt to the main stock, I'd run a glue-coated dowel right up through the bottom of the butt and into the main body of the wood, after rough-shaping is done and you know for certain where you can drill without the results being seen, if you install a toeplate. I seriously doubt there will ever be any trouble with your glued seam separating, but even after it's been cut from the fallen tree, dried, milled to a smooth plank, and shaped -- wood is a living thing and can be contrary about us taking anything for granted.
Quote from: mongrel on August 13, 2013, 03:02:40 AMI didn't mention it earlier -- but, were it me having glued the lower portion of the butt to the main stock, I'd run a glue-coated dowel right up through the bottom of the butt and into the main body of the wood, after rough-shaping is done and you know for certain where you can drill without the results being seen, if you install a toeplate. I seriously doubt there will ever be any trouble with your glued seam separating, but even after it's been cut from the fallen tree, dried, milled to a smooth plank, and shaped -- wood is a living thing and can be contrary about us taking anything for granted.
Three #10 wafer biscuits all set inside the cut outline, clamped, with good old Franklin yellow.
Better than dowels!
Looks like a fantastic project! Wish I had the guts to even start something like this.
What little input I can give is that after shooting too many TCs and rifles with no drop to the stock (right Mongrel?), I wouldn't hesitate dropping the Kentucky style down to a nice midway of both outlines. Too little drop cann be hard to sight and punish the face with heavy loads. What caliber is this going to be?
Anonym
Quote from: Anonym on August 29, 2013, 12:09:48 AM
Looks like a fantastic project! Wish I had the guts to even start something like this.
What little input I can give is that after shooting too many TCs and rifles with no drop to the stock (right Mongrel?), I wouldn't hesitate dropping the Kentucky style down to a nice midway of both outlines. Too little drop cann be hard to sight and punish the face with heavy loads. What caliber is this going to be?
Anonym
Right now I am leaning towards 45, but I am waiting to see what the 50 barrel looks like that should be here this week.
As far as stock lay out goes. If you have a gun on hand that fits you well , trace the pattern onto your wood & use it. I've used the old 870 buttstock dim. for many projects and it "fits" a bunch a folks. stay on it. ....Tom
just somebody adding 2 cents worth that don't know nothing but would seem to me if you are a real beginner the one stock with the staighter grain might be a good one to start with. I love the fancy burls and etc but they are for the more learnered (sp) folks. as all the guys have said do what feels right for you, be proud of what you made and enjoy it. That old Mongrel keeps me happy :applause: