Caps

[Blackfeet]

Can not get #10 caps locally, but have no use for them as #11's are too tight as it is, unless, of course, the 1000 piece cartons and each and every tin has been miss-labeled  . Not too likely
I have 5000 in stock spanning three years of production and they all seem to produce the same results.

There is always that chance that I have three unique rifles that just want to be different?

That said, I will mosey along now, was just curious of the original poster's findings.

[Dogshirt]

I haven't had any problems find #11s, they are on the shelves at all the places I shop. The problem seems to be CCI has no size control.

[Blackfeet]

The problem seems to be CCI has no size control.

I would agree with that if it were not for the fact that they are extremely consistent in this case. On the Cabelas 58 cal Hawken, they ALL require two strikes. Perhaps I should have made more of an effort to document lot numbers, etc. Suffice it to say that even a couple of instances will relegate the offending combination to range use only. The tough part is that the 58 is by far the most accurate production rifle that I have ever shot. Maybe it is because of the 'maybe' bang keeping me honest in my technique?

The Lyman GPRs do not fit me well so I did not have enough data to make a firm evaluation.

[Dogshirt]

The problem may also lie with the metric nipples that come with the Investarms guns. Until this last tin, I've had no problems since I tossed the stock nipple in the trash.

[Blackfeet]

Perhaps, but I did replace the nipples with Hot Shot nipples from TOTW. I will measure them again tomorrow for grins and if nothing is out of spec compared to the TCs, I will start looking at the lock.

[mongrel]

I've had several Investarms locks with weak mainsprings, that wouldn't bust caps reliably (I consider "reliably" to mean not needing a second hammer blow to set them off). In all cases a small shim to add compression to the spring cured the problem. In the case of a spring that's flat-out too weak to be useful, Dixie Gun Works and others sell replacement T/C mainsprings and they interchange with the Investarms. So far I've never had to do more than shim the existing spring, which is free and a lot quicker than ordering a new spring, but it's a worth keeping in mind as a worst-case option.

Bear in mind also, when changing out nipples, that the original T/C and Investarms nipples both are extremely short. Many if not most aftermarket nipples are longer. A longer nipple will change the angle at which the hammer nose is striking the anvil, or flat face of the nipple. Instead of striking it squarely the hammer will be contacting it at a slight angle, which will reduce the area of the cap actually being crushed between hammer and anvil, and also over a relatively short time begin to deform the nipple.

These may not be the issues in the specific cases being discussed here, but may apply to problems that others are having, who come across this topic.

[flintboomer]

I have had both problems that Mongrel mentions, the Dixie/Investarms that I had had a mainspring that was weak enough that the hammer would blow back to halfcock most of the time. It was stolen long ago, so I don't know if the hole through the nipple was also oversize.

I have one rifle that NEEDS the short nipples, everything else I use likes standard replacement nipples.

The Hotshot nipples that I have used are strait and untapered and a very tight fit for any cap plus they quickly formed a slight lip on top which makes the problem worse. The best cure that I have found is to use emery cloth and put a slight taper on them. A file will work for this, but tends to take off too much metal at a time and leave flat spots.

[gunmaker]

If you want to find out which cap is hottest, check out an app. for I-pad.  Lightning strike, it was free now 1.99 you set your I-pad and fire your cap or flint.   The second it goes off you get a pic.  Man way tooooo cool.  We fired a cci yesterday & the flash & cap debris was something.  I'll get the pic from son, and post it ASAP.   ....Tom    21st cen tech. for 18th & 19th cent. guns---

[Blackfeet]

Mongrel, I believe that we are on the same page as far as the fix for the weak spring. What you are calling a shim is probably the same thing that I am referring to as 'pre-load' as in a washer/spacer on the spring rod. I have not tried this yet but will be doing so in the near future. The other mechanical contributors have been examined and eliminated such as hammer/nipple interface and height of the nipples. I did even go so far as to file down a nipple in the lathe in the belief that the fit was at fault. Again, it is more than possible that I have unique specimens as I do often hear, " I've never seen that before' even from my doctors

[mongrel]

Yes, we're talking about the same thing, or method, or whatever -- adding compression to the mainspring by use of a spacer, which is a better term than "shim" in this context.

One of the locks I mentioned had a hammer fall so weak you could watch it go through its arc. This was entirely due to the mainspring. Shimming (or pre-loading) the spring to the point that, when it was fully-compressed, there was JUST enough clearance for the sear to engage the full-cock notch, gave the lock power enough to work reliably, but it was still distinctly slower and weaker than other Investarms locks and definitely inferior to T/C units of identical design.

The other two Investarms locks that required this fix were better, and were made strong and snappy with less pre-load than I had to use on the one described above, but still wouldn't bust caps reliably till they were altered.

Since there are numerous Investarms-made rifles equipped with these locks, that give excellent service to their owners, methinks we have here a quality-control issue rather than any design flaw or overall use of poor materials.

Getting back to caps, themselves, rather than the locks used to explode them -- I will admit that I've never shot any one percussion rifle or any one brand of caps to any extensive degree, but I've built a fair number of caplocks and done repair and tweaking to a bunch more, and my personal experience (the mileage of others may vary) has been that in cases where caps failed to pop reliably, the issue wasn't with the caps themselves. It was due to poor (excessively tight) fit on the nipple, poor nipple-to-hammer alignment (either a bad nipple angle to start with or often a too-long nipple changing the geometry of the hammer nose's meeting with the anvil), or weak hammer fall, preventing the cap from being seated solidly against the nipple anvil and/or being struck with sufficient force to crush it against the anvil. Different brands of #11 caps and even different lots of #11 caps within the same brand can have hair-fine differences in size, and nipples very definitely have more-than-hair-fine differences in their proportions, so that caps which are actually perfectly serviceable fail their user in certain applications.

All part of the fickleness of these creatures we have such a love affair with....

[gunmaker]

CCI #11 caught by lightning strike on son's I-pad.   More to follow.   ....Tom

[Watauga]

CCI #11 caught by lightning strike on son's I-pad.   More to follow.   ....Tom

Neet

[Baldy]

It would be cool if you could take the picture down the barrel and see what it looks like inside.  But then, there would be the possibility of damage to the lens or the person holding the system.  Maybe using a mirror?

[Hank12]

#10 caps are made for smaller nipples and some nipples are too large for even the #11s.  If your having to hit a cap twice to set it off either the nipple is too large or the cap is too small. It's easier to reduce the size of the nipple.  If the nipple is too small just squeeze the sides of the cap together with your fingers. Magnum caps are only necessary if your using a "hard to light" substitute powder.  CCI regular caps are as good as it get's if your using
real black powder. When shooting cappers I've used nothing else for about the last 40 yrs. never a problem.  Hank12

[Squeeze]

I wouldnt even say its degradation of hammer spring as much as deformation of nipple, making it a bit harder to properly seat a cap. after repeated use, and mushrooming the nipple. You dont even need a new nipple, just remove, clean and chuck it in a drill (not by the threads) and use a fine file, or a strip of cloth plumbers sandpaper and smooth back the mushrooming.  and Id bet your problem is solved.  I avoid too much dry firing, but if thats your game, perhaps a dedicated used nipple for just that may be in order