Wondering what i need for cleaning and shooting a .50 caliber Renegade Hunter?

[mongrel]

Crisco is only for patch lube. I use plain 3-in-1 oil from the hardware store to protect my locks and the bores of my barrels from rust. In fact in my shop I have an old rag saturated with motor oil for wiping stuff I won't be working on for awhile.

Your patch lube, whatever you use, is to ease loading and to an extent keep the bore clean once you've loaded, in case it's going to be awhile till you fire the shot. This is why I mentioned I use spit for shooting targets -- I load knowing I'm going to fire the gun, so spit works just fine. Hunting, though, is another story. It might be hours before a shot is fired and spit will dry fairly quickly, not to mention if one is too slobbery about wetting the patch it can (theoretically) moisten the powder charge to the point of affecting ignition (never had it happen but then I don't roll the patch around in a mouthful of saliva and load it dripping wet, either).

The subjects of both patch lube and oil can be as simple or as complicated as you care to make them. I find that my gun locks and bores don't seem to realize I'm not using special labelled-as-such "gun oil" to keep things lubed and rust-free, and since I only hunt in the late fall and winter I don't have a problem with Crisco. This saves me having to actually buy special products for the use and upkeep of my guns. You mileage may (and the mileage of many here certainly does) vary, and that's fine. As long as what's being recommended to you is based on experience in what WORKS, the only way you stand to go wrong is on the off-chance that someone recommending something you like the sounds of lives in an area with a significantly different climate than yours and that affects how well the recommended item will work.

Being new to this game, you need to come to an understanding of this -- there are a lot of variables when it comes to these guns and the accessories that are either necessary or helpful to get them and keep them working. You will run into "suggestions" that read more like "Thou shalts....", but there are actually relatively few details about these guns and their use where there is one way and only one way of doing something. What works for one person might not work for or simply might not be to the liking of another person. When unsure, of course, you want to ask questions, but be prepared to sift through and consider the answers you get, and don't be confused if often there seem to be as many answers as there are persons answering.

[moby6400]

There is only one "Thou Shalt" that must  be adhered to,, that is "Thou shalt put the powder in first"...      

[isaacdavis1214]

I agree,you (and i) should ALWAYS put the powder in first,i will make it a point to always do that.I live in Eastern Tennessee just about and an hour and a half or 2 hours away from North Carolina.So the climate here is humid.I'm just mainly concerned what to use to prevent rust after the barrel is dry,i know to shoot a couple of caps and run a patch of alcohol down the barrel of the rifle to make sure whatever was used to lube/prevent rust in the barrel is clear before you shoot it next.

[pilgrim]

      I use two different types of oil in the bore to prevent rust.  But my primary is WD40, works great.        I recently tried something else, it is called FLUID FLOW.  DONT USE THIS IN THE BORE!   I figured I'd treat the bores in preparation for hot humid summer months to prevent rust in the bore of my barrels.  It is great for preventing rust, BUT every rifle when taken to the range shoots a shotgun spread where the  groups were tighter prior to using FLUID FLOW.  Went shooting today and shot 40 shots with a 43 point score on Best target.  Fluid flow sticks to the metal.  Probably excellent on snow blower and tractor parts, BUT NOT IN RIFLE BORE, this is only my opinion, I need to research with another fluid flow treated barrel, on Saturday.  So far 2 out of 3 barrels shoot erratic. 

   

[William]

I believe i will try it outside now that i've read everyone's comments lol.So Crisco will work as a bore lube/outside lube for all the metal parts to protect them against rust?Please excuse me having not much gun experience.I have owned just .22 rifles and shot 9mm and .45's.

No, Crisco, olive oil, olive oil & beeswax, bore butter,, spit etc. are for lubing your shooting patches with and you don't ever want to try and ram down a dry patched round ball.  Conicals do not require a patch though, don't try to patch a conical with a regular shooting patch.  No, there are some recipes for a "dry" type lube, which isn't oily or greasy to the touch but that isn't the same as a dry patch with nothing on it.  Your rust preventatives such as Barricade, Rem-oil, etc., are for lubricating the metal to metal parts in the lock as well as for coating the bore with to prevent rust.  Crisco, Bore Butter, or whatever type of patch lube you choose is better than nothing for rust prevention and lubricating moving parts in your lock but while we play as if we were in the 17th-18th centuries, take advantage of 21st century technology when it comes to rust prevention.

[Dogshirt]

I agree,you (and i) should ALWAYS put the powder in first,i will make it a point to always do that.I live in Eastern Tennessee just about and an hour and a half or 2 hours away from North Carolina.So the climate here is humid.I'm just mainly concerned what to use to prevent rust after the barrel is dry,i know to shoot a couple of caps and run a patch of alcohol down the barrel of the rifle to make sure whatever was used to lube/prevent rust in the barrel is clear before you shoot it next.

Try as you might, you WILL dryball! All it takes is someone speaking to you at the wrong time, and down goes the patch and ball and.....NO powder! We all have done it, or we will, there is no way around it. It will happen, it's
just a matter of time.

[isaacdavis1214]

I should have said i will try and not dryball my first 10 shots lol.I am going to buy pre lubed patches to start off,i know buying pillow ticking is way cheaper but like the convinience of pre lubed patches.I will buy some rem oil or WD-40 as a rust prevenative.I am also thinking of buying extra nipples along with a nipple wrench,flask (potentially),range rod,powder (some is supposed to be available at the local walmart,probably Pyrodex.),pre lubed patches,cleaning patches,caps,balls,extra nipples (potentially),crown protector (potentially),and a patch puller and worm puller.Thanks to Renegade i don't have to buy a powder measure or a Jag.I still have some stuff to buy,but it's really not all that much in the overall picture.

[William]

I agree with using pre-cut/lubed patches to start with but you'll just want to pick up one extra nipple for now, just to have a back-up.  For keeping small items together in one place, like the nipple wrench, cleaning jag, breech scrapper, etc., an empty tin box like Altoids or Fisherman's Friend cough drops comes in works really well, and as our forum name suggests, is cheap.  The newer Altoids tin have the name stamped into the lid, which you can hammer to reshape but I bet you can scare up an old one that you just have to sand or burn the paint off of to make it look cool and antique.  If not, there are plenty of places to buy small tins, rectangular and round.  Here's just one place to get them;
http://bepreparedtosurvive.com/Misc.Containers.htm
I burned the paint of an Altoids tin and have the following in mine;
2 powder flask spouts
4 jags
2 nipples
nipple wrench
extra wedge key
& some Allen wrenches that I've forgotten what they go to

PS-if you do dryball don't sweat it as it is not the most exclusive club in town-

[pilgrim]

     There is one more small, inexpensive item you will need to  have in the kit William mentioned.  A NIPPLE PICK,  can be a thin paper clip straightened or a commercially available one.  Use this to clear blockage in nipple.  Caps sometimes cause fouling of nipple. Nipple pick is inserted through hole/orafice of nipple to clear blockage and allow good passage of spark to main powder charge.  Also concerning the jags,  avoid jags with brass threads, brass jags with steel threads DO NOT BREAK leaving patched jag in barrel, when cleaning.  I have had two total brass jags break off while cleaning the bore.  It is real interesting try to shoot out a broken sopping wet patched jag from a wet barrel.  And they always seem to break off in the powder resevoir pocket.

[Hawken50]

  Yep, remember this,there are those that have dryballed and those that will.

[pilgrim]

     There also those that while loading, were distracted, talking with others and double charged powder and patched ball.  Makes  for a minimum of a bulged barrel.  Pay close attention to your loading.  Talk later. 

[Dogshirt]

Saw this listed on ebay this AM. It looks like it has most everything you need to get out shooting.
Depending on what it goes for it's not a bad deal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CVA-MUZZLELOADING-SHOOTERS-KIT-NO-4092-/190710274557?pt=Vintage_Hunting&hash=item2c6737d9fd#ht_576wt_934

[isaacdavis1214]

That does look like a good deal.But i will most likely buy everything i need this coming paycheck.Does anyone use a Brass cleaning brush on their muzzleloader's or do patches work just as good?What type of Allen Keye's do i need?From what i can tell there i THINK there should be no reason for me to break the gun down anymore than just the barrel and stock.I don't think i'll need a wedge key though.To take the wedge pin out on this T/C renegade Hunter is actually very easy.I can get it out effortlessly just by puching and pulling it.

[William]

Unless you have something on your rifle that requires and Allen wrench to be removed you don't need any. My old Lyman Trade Rifle had a cleanout screw that required an Allen wrench but when Mongrel rebuilt it and changed the breach plug from right to left it has a slotted screwhead now.

[flintboomer]

Saw this listed on ebay this AM. It looks like it has most everything you need to get out shooting.
Depending on what it goes for it's not a bad deal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CVA-MUZZLELOADING-SHOOTERS-KIT-NO-4092-/190710274557?pt=Vintage_Hunting&hash=item2c6737d9fd#ht_576wt_934

there is at least $35-$50 worth of stuff in that kit and most of it looks good for someone getting started, but don't forget to factor in the shipping if you bid on it. The powder flask alone goes for $15-$25 and there was a short starter and what looks like at least one powder measure plus something else and a basic handbook. It is a good deal if you can get it for under $20.
(added)
FOUR powder measures and a nipple wrench! The extra nipples are probably metric and would not work on a TC.