barrel blank rifling

[Da Backwoodsman]

someone should do a how-to on boring and rifling a barrel blank as they're about half the price of finished

[FrankG]

Where did ya find the blanks

[Da Backwoodsman]

Click here: Order Alloy Steel 4130 Round in Small Quantities at OnlineMetals.com


here's a link I found and for 1 1/4" 4130 steel tubing is 12.00 a foot, you can't even get a Spanish arms 36" barrell for 36.00

[mongrel]

The biggest problem I would see with this stuff is if you actually drilled out solid round stock. I believe this is how some modern barrels are made but I don't know. I do know that barrels such as those offered by Numrich, which were milled octagon first, then bored and rifled, usually have the bore a hair off-center at one end, due to drill run-out. Green Mountain drills first, then mills the octagon flats using the hole itself as center. 1 1/4" solid stock would allow for possible run-out with enough metal to still mill octagon with the bore on center -- the problem would be doing it. I'm not saying it would be a big problem, because I don't know. To me "drilling" means either a drill press or hand-held drill -- someone with experience in machining might shake his head and say, "No, Mike, you use a --" and proceed to explain how simple a process it is if you have the right tools.

Rifle barrels of the sort we're interested in were originally made by forging a round tube around a steel rod, a few inches at a time, then enlarging, smoothing, and rifling the bore. This is a labor-intensive process and (more importantly to me) requires the dedication of a lot of shop floor space. I have no problem with sweat and a sore back, but the area I have to work in is limited. The equipment used in the old days to bore and rifle barrels would actually be relatively simple to make -- go to your local library and check out (have them order it if it's not on their shelves) "Foxfire Volume 5", edited by Eliot Wiggington, which contains all the info, complete with diagrams, you would need to construct original-style boring and rifling machines.

I was more interested in the actual tubing that onlinemetals sold -- the 1" is available with a .5" inside diameter. If this stuff is seamless that would be the ticket. A 1" OD tube will allow milling to create a 7/8" octagon barrel, and from corner to corner on a 15/16" octagon barrel appears to be only the tiniest fraction more than a full inch -- one might have to settle for not-quite-perfectly-sharp corners, but could mill out a 15/16" octagon tube (or, hey, why does it have to be either 7/8" or 15/16" -- make it something in between -- it's a custom barrel, after all).

This would still leave the rifling process -- unless one wanted to leave it a smoothbore, which would deliver adequate hunting accuracy out to maybe 60-70 yards with careful loading and a lot of practice. A lot of other folks' research indicates to me that a great many of the so-called long "rifles" back in the day were actually smoothbores, as a result of being made that way, not reamed out after the original rifling was gone to pot.

Rather than look for the Foxfire book (I'm old enough to think first of books, instead of this cyber-creature I'm typing on at this exact moment ), do a search on "rifling machine" and you'll probably come up with all the info and instructions you would need to decide if this is a viable alternative to buying a finished barrel.

[Da Backwoodsman]

 I researched it and here's my take on it all.

While the whole process seems relatively easy for the basic mechanically inclined individual, the intial cost and shop space require could be intensive. From what I have read, it appears the barrel  goes through a 3 step process.

first, the barrel is drilled on a machine ironically named a gundriller. During this process the barrel is drilled smaller than actual size, next the barrel is bored to the desired inside diameter and finally the barrel is rifled and lapped.

apparently they are 2 types of rifling machines a "sine bar" or a "b" which is a hydraulic system.  It seems that these particular machines were in use for a 100 years only to be replaced by CNC machines.

Now some homemade set-ups do exist and according to advertising for some of the videos rifling and combo boring machines can be made relatively affordable and only need 3x8 floor space in a shop.

The bulk of my research has been focused on i.d. shaping of the barrel I haven't even began to explore the tools ans skills necessary to shape the o.d. to octagonal. Also these methods the barrel is held stationary while the processes' bits move through the stock, however the picture and explanation  of an 18 century rifling machine leads me to believe that the bits needed were stationary while the barrel was turning.

At first thought I assumed that primitive rifling would be a fairly simple and affordable process and while i still believe the notion contains merits, I now realize that a) the gunsmiths of the past were more technologically advanced than their time permitted hence the, what had to be at the time,aninvention synonamous with the inventing of the wheel. and b) the reason we dont have a catalogs worth of barrel makers in this genre. The end result has created a desire to explore my options further and if economically possible to build for myself a rifling machine. if for no more than the experience. For any of you who might also be interested I will post some links I found.

[Da Backwoodsman]

http://smartflix.com/store/video/320/Bill-Webs-Rifle-Barrel-Making-Machine


here's a link to rent a much recommended video on making a bench rifler

[Da Backwoodsman]

Bill's machine was built with a lathe, an old horizontal mill, a drill press, and hand tools, mainly from parts and material obtained as surplus or from the scrap box -- nothing exotic is required.


(Just to make sure you understand the foregoing: Bill HAD ONLY the machines and tools named above when he built his rifling machine. His rifling machine is not a conglomeration OF those items.)


The end result is a stand-alone machine which has a shop footprint about 2' x 8'. Two men could carry it and the simple home-made wooden bench on which it sits a short distance

[FrankG]

Check this out for a simple and economical alternative .

http://www.iowatelecom.net/~toadhall/

[mongrel]

Too bad you're not located closer to Indiana. During the NMLRA Shoots in June and September, as well as The Lore Of The Laughery living history weekend earlier in the spring, at least one rifling machine of original design is set up for those who are interested to both inspect and, under supervision, operate for as long as they can stand it. For those of us who are fascinated with the old days and ways, it's one of many fascinating things to be found there.

It really is a simple process (for those who, as stated, have some mechanical inclination), not only to operate but to build one of these machines. When I say they take up too much room -- my soon-to-be complete new building for the actual construction of my guns is 8'x12'. What I've been using for a shop, until now, is an old washroom that the dogs don't even like to go in, it's so damp and moldy. My barrels, tools, scrap metal, and tooth fillings are browning whether I want them to or not . That will continue to be where the metal and wood gets finished -- with an electric fan going my various stains and urethanes dry perfectly well, and like I said browning steel is a quick process. Even splitting the steps of building and finishing guns between two buildings, though, I don't have room for a rifling machine. I probably would never be able to dedicate the time to rifling a new barrel, but modifying the design of the machine to be able to use the rifling of a worn-out tube as the guide for the cutters, in order to "fresh out" a barrel with a bad bore, would have some definite appeal. This used to be a profitable sideline for gunmakers, and all of us have come across at least a few dirt-cheap flea market or back-of-the-closet guns with ruined bores to make it seem like there'd still be some merit in offering this service.

It will be interesting to follow your progress.

[mongrel]

Re-reading Da Backwoodsman's post on the results of his research -- on the primitive (muscle-powered) rifling machines I'm familiar with, the barrel was clamped stationary in the bed of the machine while the rod holding the rifling bit was attached to a roughly 4' long wooden pole, with grooves cut in it to match the desired rifling twist. This rotated as it was pushed back and forth. Obviously a different pole, or cylinder, or whatever one would call it, would be required for each different rifling twist that was called for. And, if the barrels to be rifled were more in the 36" range instead of the 3 1/2 to 4-foot tubes used on most original rifles, both the rotating cylinder and cutting rod (and thus the entire machine) could be made significantly shorter.

[Da Backwoodsman]

its starting to look like one could reproduce a seperate machine for all of the steps fairly affordable but I'm wondering if the combo machine is not better as it uses less floor space... the research continues.

[FrankG]

I believe the link I posted is for a machine that is used for both. You switch out the rifling head for the boring head .