Shooting in the air

[moby6400]

This was on Yahoo news,,,

Gun cleaning a mile away kills Amish girl

3 hrs ago - AP 0:38 | 27,953 views

A man cleaning his muzzle-loading rifle shot the gun into the air, accidentally killing a 15-year-old Amish girl driving a horse-drawn buggy more than a mile away, a sheriff said Tuesday. (Dec. 20)

[crazell]

That's horrible!! Gun Safety is a must at all times!!! So sad to hear......

[Watauga]

What kind of load do you suppose he was using to go 1.5 miles and kill someone?
And who shoots into the air to clear a loaded Muzzle loader!??!
This is so sad.
http://www.wwltv.com/news/national/135968513.html
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-ap-amish-girl-shot-homicide-txt,0,2982818.story
As I see more coverage on this It Happened after 8:30 at night.
I Guess a Horse looks like a Deer in the Dark?!
Hunting after Dark?!?

[ErikPrice1@msn.com]

 True to that Watauga. Sad story but the man aught to be a man and face the maker on his feet if that is the case.

[Blackfeet]

What kind of load do you suppose he was using to go 1.5 miles and kill someone?
And who shoots into the air to clear a loaded Muzzle loader!??!
I Guess a Horse looks like a Deer in the Dark?!
Hunting after Dark?!?

I am guessing that I am not alone in not being able to see a horse or the barn it is stabled in at over a mile after dark.
It was a tragedy, a stupid accident but lets not turn it into a slob hunter/poacher issue. The media can do that on their own.

**I am adding to my post here that unless there is something more sinister to the story than I have read or heard, this should be an eye-opener for all of us.

We have been taught and have as teachers passed on to others the adage to always point our firearms in a 'safe' direction in case of an accidental discharge. This is usually at the ground or in the air or away from present company at any rate. After being trained in this manner, is it not possible that the practice of unloading in what was taught was a 'safe ' direction be mistakenly considered acceptable?

Before you start flaming, I DO NOT APPROVE

I think that we all must realize, accept, and teach that there are few truly safe directions

[Watauga]

What kind of load do you suppose he was using to go 1.5 miles and kill someone?
And who shoots into the air to clear a loaded Muzzle loader!??!
I Guess a Horse looks like a Deer in the Dark?!
Hunting after Dark?!?

I am guessing that I am not alone in not being able to see a horse or the barn it is stabled in at over a mile after dark.
It was a tragedy, a stupid accident but lets not turn it into a slob hunter/poacher issue. The media can do that on their own.

You are right Blackfeet
It just has me trying to figure out if he shot in the air why the ball did not hit the top of the buggy roof first

[Blackfeet]

"It just has me trying to figure out if he shot in the air why the ball did not hit the top of the buggy roof first"

Watauga, I know that you meant nothing but I am hearing the anti's on this already and realized how my post came out and amended it. Sorry.

[mongrel]

If he'd shot straight up enough into the air that the bullet would have passed through the roof of the buggy before hitting the girl, I seriously doubt that the projectile would have come to earth anywhere near a mile or more away. My thinking is a far more arcing trajectory, to achieve the reported distance between shooter and victim. In that case it's entirely believable that the bullet struck the young lady as much from the side as from above.

I realize the actual statement made was in regard to what is considered a safe direction to POINT a firearm, in CASE of an accidental discharge, but the case here involves the deliberate firing of a gun in the direction of thin air. "In the air" could never be considered a safe direction to discharge a firearm. Without a known backstop one has no idea where the bullet might come down and by definition has violated the cardinal rules of ALWAYS being sure of one's backstop and target. "In the air" is the direction drunk yahoos fire at times like New Year's Eve and the Fourth Of July, and I doubt that in that context anyone here would absolve the shooters of responsibility for who, what, or where their bullets finally hit. Precisely exactly the same thinking or lack thereof, so far as I'm concerned -- a hunter or shooter clearing his muzzleloader with a skyward shot is not one iota more responsible than an inebriated fool emptying the magazine of a semi-auto handgun in the vague direction of the stars.

[Blackfeet]

I realize the actual statement made was in regard to what is considered a safe direction to POINT a firearm, in CASE of an accidental discharge,

Thank you for addressing my actual statement. My point is that a direction that is considered unsafe in a deliberate discharge is no safer if the discharge is an accident. For this reason it would be beneficial to

learn and teach from this tragedy. We can only follow and stress the rules over and over.

There is under most circumstances no safe direction for discharge from any means, accidental or otherwise , unless you are following the cardinal rule that you stated. I cringe and sometimes actually hunker down

when a deer hunter lets loose a volley at a running deer. When asked, they have no idea what was behind the animal.

[Red Badger]

I have to agree with the opinion stateed that "safe direction" does NOT include in the air.... Always know what your backstop is going to be in case you get a through and through shot -  Shooting safety is critical for anything; bow, blow pipe, firearm, B B gun, or whatever that launches a projectile.

I have a scar from a ricochete that if the projectile had not hit pavement first and lost most of it's kinetic energy should have taken my foot off at the ankle! 

[mongrel]

I realize the actual statement made was in regard to what is considered a safe direction to POINT a firearm, in CASE of an accidental discharge,

Thank you for addressing my actual statement. My point is that a direction that is considered unsafe in a deliberate discharge is no safer if the discharge is an accident. For this reason it would be beneficial to

learn and teach from this tragedy. We can only follow and stress the rules over and over.

There is under most circumstances no safe direction for discharge from any means, accidental or otherwise , unless you are following the cardinal rule that you stated. I cringe and sometimes actually hunker down

when a deer hunter lets loose a volley at a running deer. When asked, they have no idea what was behind the animal.

Oh, you and I are on the same page here, absolutely. I heavily edited my original post when I realized there was a huge difference between what you had said about where to safely POINT a firearm when not intending to actually shoot it, and how I initially took it as a statement about safe directions to DISCHARGE a firearm. If you caught the original version before my edit, I apologize.

The one person who IMHO ought not be permitted to "learn" from this tragedy is the guy who fired the gun. I am in no way an anti-gunner but so far as I'm concerned this one moment of negligence and its consequences should cost him the right to ever own or use another firearm. No doubt he will be haunted by what happened till the day he dies, and the fact is that, while I sympathize with the pain I'm sure he feels, it has no bearing on the matter. He killed another person by way of a stupid action that he could simply have chosen NOT TO DO. Until he can demonstrate the ability to raise the dead, and brings this girl back to life, his right to keep and bear arms should be the price he pays for depriving her of her right to life.

That's solely my opinion, and will no doubt strike some as excessively harsh, but the one fact of firearms that I won't avoid or deny is that they are deadly tools. Despite the existence of many guns in no way intended for anything but non-lethal sport, the original and innate purpose of the gun was to kill, and most innovations and improvements in firearms throughout the centuries have been with that purpose first and foremost in mind. Anyone who doesn't know, who forgets, or who ignores that fact is demonstrating a lack of competence to possess and use the things. This is not to say gun owners are killers, or that the ownership of a gun implies the intent or willingness to kill; just -- know what a gun is and what it can do in only an instant of poor judgement, and for God's sake be careful people....

[old salt]

All I can say Amen. Unfortunately I feel at this time your are preaching to the choir.
I can tell you that if He is any kind of a decent humanbeing that has feeling, he will for ever see the ghost of that girl for the reat of his life.

[gordy]

         I certainly have to agree with those that site the firing a weapon into the air is a dangerous and careless act. It would seem that if he had to take the safty course most states require to obtain a hunting license , there was a failure of communication between the instructor on what qualifys as a SAFE direction. Having been a hunter safty instructor for several years, I know its not possible to catch all applicants that demonstrate a lack of understanding of the seriousness of owning and using a deadly weapon.
        For the number of leagle gun owners ,the accident rate is very low. Lets hope we can improve our safty instruction till there are NO accidents. If you compare the number of fatalitys by duly licensed vehicle drivers ( usually over 40.000a year) our safty instruction seems to be much better.
          My heart goes out to the family of the girl.

                                       

[Dogshirt]

         I certainly have to agree with those that site the firing a weapon into the air is a dangerous and careless act. It would seem that if he had to take the safty course most states require to obtain a hunting license , there was a failure of communication between the instructor on what qualifys as a SAFE direction. Having been a hunter safty instructor for several years, I know its not possible to catch all applicants that demonstrate a lack of understanding of the seriousness of owning and using a deadly weapon.
        For the number of leagle gun owners ,the accident rate is very low. Lets hope we can improve our safty instruction till there are NO accidents. If you compare the number of fatalitys by duly licensed vehicle drivers ( usually over 40.000a year) our safty instruction seems to be much better.
          My heart goes out to the family of the girl.

                                       

There will ALWAYS be accidents, but STUPIDITY does not need to occur,

[DandJofAZ]

Unfortunately shooting into the air is a very common accordance...In '95 I vacuumed the shakes on my home (to many birch trees shedding on it and moss was growing) with a small tip on hose...came up with 7 bullets off the roof..all from the sky....not all those bangs in the night are just sticks and pine cones!!  May have been more, but all 38-45 slugs got caught by small tip...who knows how many 22 size were just sucked up..
Doug