A relic with possibilities

[mongrel]

I acquired this Saturday and will be looking to sell it, but for the time being, till I've evaluated its whole condition and exactly what work could/should be done to it, it's simply an "item of interest" I'm posting for the enjoyment of the forum.

What we have is a boy's or lady's small-sized smoothbore, 46 1/2" long. This gun is original percussion and purpose-built to this size (in other words not a cut-down full-sized fowler). As can be seen in the first pic the proportions were scaled down to match the length of the gun. Barrel length is 32", full octagon and slightly swamped, starting out at 11/16" at the breech and tapering and flaring very slightly to 5/8" at the muzzle. Caliber is a very approximate .40 or slightly larger, impossible to tell precisely (yet) because the muzzle has been coned slightly, either deliberately or over many, many years of use. If it's ramrod wear it's very uniform round so it may very well have been a deliberate modification to ease loading. A small blade front sight is the only assist to accurate shooting.

The lock measures 4 7/16" x 7/8", the hammer having a throw of 1 7/16". This puts it on par size-wise with the smaller CVA and Traditions locks with the rounded tails, though the hammer in particular is a closer match to the small Siler type. It's retained by a single round-headed screw of approximately 10-32 pitch, with no sideplate or even a metal washer to buffer the wood under the screw head. Again, this is NOT a percussion conversion from flint. The possibility exists that it started life as a flinter and had a new lock installed early in the percussion period (in an area settled and prosperous enough to have allowed the luxury of a purpose-built small gun, the percussion era can be considered to have begun by the 1820's, whereas in rougher areas where money and a reliable source of caps would have been an issue the flintlock remained the dominant form of ignition at least into the mid-1830's, probably somewhat later). However the lock and sideplate panels are nicely-proportioned to the size and shape of the lock and there are no inletting gaps, so if a flint mechanism was ever in place its lockplate would have been slightly smaller and of almost identical profile, in order for the replacement percussion piece to have been so nicely-fitted. Inletting for the lock internals consisted of pretty much hogging out all wood from the sear arm to the bend of the mainspring, without any particular attempt to "mold" the inletting to the lock's internals, so that gives no clue as to whether this lock is original to the gun. For lack of any clear sign to the contrary I'm inclined to believe the gun was born percussion, never altered. Lockup is solid and the forged-iron trigger trips the sear with only enough effort to keep things safe. I had thought that the half-cock notch must be broken, since the trigger will drop the hammer from half-cock, but when I pulled the lock I found that half-cock on this tumbler never had a full cut for the sear nose to engage in -- it's just a square notch like the full-cock position and judging by its size, closeness to the lower edge of the lockplate, and lack of visible wear, it was made that way. Not "safe" by our standards but that's the way it was done on this lock. The plate is marked but pitting makes it impossible to make out more than "(possible T)(possible E or A)LWE...?"

The stock is walnut, with a length of pull of 13". The buttplate, well-formed from a piece of sheet iron or steel, is 4 1/4" high and 1 13/32" wide. Overall condition of the wood is fair for its age, with enough solid wood in critical areas to make restoration a viable consideration. The forend extends to within 3/4" of the muzzle and though it's cracked in the ramrod channel and shows wear at its very end it does not appear to have been broken or simply worn away -- my guess is it was cut and nicely rounded-off at approximately this point by whoever built the gun. There is significant wood loss and damage in the breech area, but after removing the wood screw that secures the barrel tang (there is no triggerplate for a machine screw to be threaded into after passing completely through the wrist) there is absolutely no feeling of instability through the breech and wrist area -- all the damage appears to be "off the top" with solid wood left intact below the barrel and behind the lock. Wood is missing pretty much all along the top edge of the lock, leaving the top of the bridle, the lock screw, and the top arm of the mainspring in full view. There is a significant crack around the breechplug tang, where it appears a wedge-shaped chunk of the wood split off and was glued back into place, though like I say I don't see or feel any sign that the damage extends even close to completely through the wood. There is wood loss extending about 5" forward from the lock screw, roughly 3/8" deep at its worst from the upper line of the forend.

Stock dimensions are very dainty. As stated, the buttplate measures 4 1/4" x 1 13/32". The wrist for several inches ahead of the comb is just barely 1 1/4" tall. At the forend's thickest point, just ahead of the lock panels, I can close my hand completely around the wood and barrel. This gun was definitely not made for hard use and the fact that it has survived in even the condition it's in, indicates years of either very infrequent use or great care taken in its being handled and maintained. Really except for the actually damaged areas the walnut is in very nice condition -- no gouges or major scratches or other surface damage as is common on old guns like this.

The furniture consists of the buttplate, a square-finialed guard of small-sized fowler shape, an entry pipe with a pointed finial, and a forward loop of 1/4" wide sheet metal that is pinned in place and appears to not only retain the approximately 5/16" diameter hickory ramrod but also the muzzle end of the barrel. When I remove the barrel I'll know more about this feature. Everything is age-blackened iron or steel, matching the barrel and lock.

The barrel has no real pitting anywhere along its exterior. There is a wear area with a matching groove cut into the stock, about 4 1/2" from the breech, where obviously a band of metal harder than the barrel material chewed into both the barrel and stock. Too bad, otherwise the barrel exterior would be as close to perfect as you could expect on something this old.

So far the bore is cleaning up nicely and seems to have no pitting to compromise its strength, but I've only just started poking a bronze brush down and have not yet cleared the crud on the inside of the late five to six inches at the breech end of the bore, where it's most likely there will be damage if any is going to be found. The breechplug threads extend almost 5/8" into the barrel, a very stout setup especially considering the small bore and the age of the gun -- I've pulled plugs out of much larger-bore original barrels and found the threads significantly less than 3/8" in length. I don't know that this barrel will ever be a candidate for a "shooter" but so far things are looking good. Time (and a modest proof load if it ever comes to that) will tell.

At this point I don't know what the future of the gun will be. I don't think I will tackle restoration or, best-case scenario, bringing it up to shootable condition. In either case I would leave that and any responsibility for potential danger (as in then firing the gun) to its next owner. I DO know I will be selling it in the not-too-distant future and that there will be a rock-solid bottom-line price of $350 assuming the gun remains as it is now, but with the bore cleaned out -- but circumstances may change and the gun's condition might be upgraded and if so the price may increase. At present it's not for sale. Another option would be to build a duplicate walnut stock and without the least alteration of the barrel, lock, or other metal, re-stock the gun, setting the original stock carefully aside to accompany the piece on its journey to its next owner. At this point I honestly don't know what will be done or have the time, really, to devote to whatever level of project this turns into.

Overall view


Butt and lock area


Lock, some damage visible around it


Better shots of the damaged/missing wood, and groove cut into the barrel





The business end of things


Details of hardware

[old salt]

Mike this looks like a very interesting project. If and when you start working on it I would like to see more pic
Old Salt

[crazell]

That's a cool find.I'm sure when your done with it,it'll look great as usual!!Can't wait to see more pics as you go along...

[beowulf]

interesting piece , would make a great project gun ! be interesting to see you restore it to health !

[mongrel]

I'm really not sure how far I'm going to take any kind of restoring it, or if I'll do much of anything at all. Especially if it's in really decent shape, if I fix it up too nicely and then sell it, and it comes into the hands of one of those types who considers recommended maximum loads to be a minimum starting point -- I don't want the liability issue of having sold a technically-shootable gun to a fool like that.

Plus I'm really starting to wonder if I can't work a way to afford to keep it. Almost every detail on it is such that it's like I was studying this gun when I was working out how to put my rugrat rifles together --scaling stuff down and simplifying certain details and ending up with something kid-sized that just LOOKS right. Plus, the more I look at it, this gun was built by someone who knew his stuff and took pride in doing fine work. There are no inletting gaps or bad proportions or any of the other little disappointments you run across on low-end guns of the period, but at the same time it's a very simple, very plain piece of work. Ideal for a kid's gun, then and now. I'd love to have it hanging on the wall of my shop just to use as reference and inspiration.

Guess we shall see. As I said over on the Border Camp -- if it comes down to it and all it means is having to eat a lot of ramen and spaghetti for awhile, I believe I'll be keeping this little guy.

[Watauga]

Mongrel, I think this gun found you for a reason.
After the story of you fixing up the young man with your rifle.
Karma or what ever you want to call it is at work.
Especially as this is the Rug Rat type you are famous for.
Perhaps a early 19th Century kindred Spirit wanted to show you his Work and inspire you?!?

[Papa]

Mongrel,
Is there any sign of there once having been a rear sight on the barrel. It seems a little unusual for a smoothbore, kids or otherwise, to have an octagon barrel. Perhaps it was a kids, or woman's, rifle that was bored out smooth.
Mark

[mongrel]

Mongrel,
Is there any sign of there once having been a rear sight on the barrel. It seems a little unusual for a smoothbore, kids or otherwise, to have an octagon barrel. Perhaps it was a kids, or woman's, rifle that was bored out smooth.
Mark

That was my thinking too --about the full-octagon smoothbore barrel. But there is nothing to indicate a rear sight ever having been present, unless the absent band that left such an impression in the barrel and forend supported a sight. It's in the right place and it seems quite strange to have used a band to secure the barrel when a correctly-located pin, one of three holding the barrel in place, is just 3" ahead of the band scar.

Interesting possibility! When I get new batteries for my bore light and have cleaned things out a bit better I'll have to see if perhaps any traces of rifling remain. If not there is every likelihood this was still originally a rifle. Only the utter lack of any rear sight (and the fowler-style hardware) caused me to assume otherwise.

Interesting-er and interesting-er....

[Papa]

Mongrel,
The former "band" may indeed have been a saddle with a sight mounted on it. That way the sight could be relocated as needed. It will be interesting to see what you may find in the bore.
Mark

[pathfinder]

, if I fix it up too nicely and then sell it, and it comes into the hands of one of those types who considers recommended maximum loads to be a minimum starting point -- I don't want the liability issue of having sold a technically-shootable gun to a fool like that.


I belive in Darwinizm,We evolved from the SMART FAST caveman,the dumb ones blew themselves up!

[Dogshirt]

, if I fix it up too nicely and then sell it, and it comes into the hands of one of those types who considers recommended maximum loads to be a minimum starting point -- I don't want the liability issue of having sold a technically-shootable gun to a fool like that.


I belive in Darwinizm,We evolved from the SMART FAST caveman,the dumb ones blew themselves up!

True, but today EVERYTHING is stacked to save the STUPID SLOW ones from themselves and everything else!