Powder & Shot Load ratios out of smoothbore muzzleloaders...

[roundball]

Wondering about pros & cons of shot charge sizes in smoothbore muzzleloaders...and to kick it off I'll use a .20ga as an example, although I believe the principles generally apply to smoothbore muzzleloaders across the board.

I am of the belief that typical shot charge sizes often suggested for muzzleloaders are the result of comparing them to the modern shotgun shells we're familiar with.
ie: A typical 2+3/4" .20ga shell is normally loaded with 7/8oz volume of shot.
I am also of the belief that the modern 7/8oz charge is the result of the physical limitations of the shell's hull capacity, and not a result of factors like pressure as shotguns operate at comparatively modest pressures.
Conversely, I believe that loading a smoothbore muzzleloader in its bare bore, without the limiting confines of a physical hull, using blackpowder with even significantly lower pressures, is a completely different environment and as a result, comparisons to modern shot shells is really not a logical guideline.

A couple of loads that I've personally tested/settled on have powder & lead ratios greater than 1:1...similar to the old saying in the blackpowder world of "load powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead".
One in particular, a publicized .62cal turkey load is an 80grn measure of Goex 3F and a 120grn measure of hard #6s...a 1:1.5 ratio...I adopted it and it's worked fine for me on a few turkeys.  In fact, when used as a "shot rifle" at small size stationary targets like that (turkey heads, squirrels) the notion of a longer shot string only seems to help. 
Conversely, the few times I've shot some clay targets with smaller size shot, the larger ratios have not been needed due to the higher pellet count in #8s or #9s.

Love fiddling with smooth bores...going to start shot load development this weekend with the 42" Rice .54cal smoothie..any "pet loads" and performance results for various game would be good to hear...

[twobarrel]

I use 60 gr. of 3f Goex and 80 gr. of #6's in my .54 with wasp nest op and os. It works good in my smoothie for small game and turkeys.

[roundball]

Thanks, I'll be testing that one for sure...in getting ready for the first range trip on Monday, so far I've got large ziploc bags of 35mm film canisters loaded with 60grns Goex, and another with 70grns Goex.
I have sets of 35mm canisters with pre-measured shot charges, ie: 70/80/90/100grn measures of #5s/#6s/#7.5s.
Pattern sheets are ready with pre-printed stickers already stuck on so all I have to do is circle a few items to identify the distance, load components for that particular target.
A grocery bag full of tuna cans for penetration testing at different distances rounds out the tests.

Looking for the best combination of pattern density / penetration / distance for a solid squirrel/small game load out of this 42" x .54cal barrel.

[Red Badger]

So Rb your saying I can go over the 1:1 ratio?  I was told when Di got her smoothie that it should be a 1:1 ratio.  the only "smoothbore " muzzleloader I have is my 12 g. coach gun and have only  used 1:1 ratio in it.  I may have to do some experimenting myself!

[roundball]

I've heard that reference to using a 1:1 ratio and that may work fine for clay targets with fine shot where the pellet count is high and the targets are close...ie: 8s and 9s.
Speaking for myself, I've always used higher shot to powder ratios with the medium to large size pellets we use for hunting and my approach is based on the larger the pellet sizes, the fewer of them there are, the more empty air space there is, so the higher the ratio I will use.  Smaller sizes like 8s / 9s have such high pellet counts its not necessary.

IMO, the old timers had it figured out, evidenced by the old saying:
"Load powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead"

And there is no reason not to as long as no abnormal, ridiculously large magnum powder charges are used that might somehow create unsafe pressures.
In these 42" barrels, I'm only using 50-60grns Goex in .54s smoothbores, and 70-80grns in .62cal smoothbores.

And there's not a one size fits all ratio...I use a sliding scale keeping payload weight / velocity in mind.
The larger the pellets the higher the ratio I use because of all the extra wasted dead air space between pellets.
For example, I'll use 8s and 9s in a 1:1, but depending on the game I'm hunting will incrementally step up to the larger size ratios...ie: 1:1.2,  1:1.3,  1:1.4, etc.

Imagine how few pellets there would be in a 1:1 ratio if you wanted to load large size #2s for body shots on turkey or coyotes...in other words, how many big #2 would fit in a 60-70grn powder measure, and what kind of a pattern would you have at a mere 20-25 yards.

Just my .02cents on the matter, and in about 10 years of this approach, its proven itself just like the old saying.
"Load powder, more lead, shoots far, kills dead"

[voyageur1688]

I aint been here in a few blue moons, but my brother got  a 20 guage front stuffer n I caint tell from this where ta start on the load. mostly target shootin, ut will do a bita grouse, duck n goose hutn wittit. whatcha got fer me ta tellum? Rifles n pistols I got down, but nothin bout shotguns. Thanks.

[Rev]

I always shot 70 grains of 3f with 1 1/4 oz of shot. Wads & such is something you have to experiment with...

[pathfinder]

In my .77cal,10ga Bess,I use to use equal measure of shot and powder,maybe a little more shot. Recently,while pondering life, I was trying to figure out why I cant hit bird's with my Bess,yet with modern gun's I'm a consistant 22-23 bird shooter with modern gun's.

My load then was 90grs 2f,o/p card,wad,o/s card,1+measure of mixed shot,@60%#9,then anothero/s card. My thinking was,the more B-B's I get in the air,the better. I'm thinking that with the velocities our muzzleloader have,the #9's may be losing a lot of energy by the time they get to the target.

Now I've adopted,65grs 2f,o/p card,wad,o/s card,2 90grs measures of #6 shot,then a o/s card, Now I'm hitting the bird's at a 75% clip! I'm guessing less powder doesn't spred the shot out and the #6 retain's a little more energy. Either way,for now I'll stick with this load!

[DandJofAZ]

70gr + 1oz of shot has been working on paper for my shortbarrel (24 1/2") 62cal.. may up shot loads for birds, just have to see what they really need..

Doug

[voyageur1688]

 mii gwitch for the input. at least now I have a starting point for it. its been driving my brother nuts and me as well since neither of us will go shooting it without a proven start point.

[DandJofAZ]

Now you have no excuse not to go make smoke!!

Doug