New type of powder

[ErikPrice1@msn.com]

 All right, now even before I ask I know I'm going to get it so here it goes. I was just at a web site and they were offering a powder that is called american pioneer powder it comes in 2f or 3f. They say it burns alot cleaner than the others and even had a chart for fps and such. I just wanted to know if any of you heard anything or have tried it?? I'm always looking at new stuff to try. Let me know. Thanks

[Red Badger]

News to me....

[old salt]

I Have not personally used the Pioneer Powder the reports I have heard have not been favorable

[William]

All right, now even before I ask I know I'm going to get it so here it goes. I was just at a web site and they were offering a powder that is called American pioneer powder it comes in 2f or 3f. They say it burns alot cleaner than the others and even had a chart for fps and such. I just wanted to know if any of you heard anything or have tried it?? I'm always looking at new stuff to try. Let me know. Thanks

APP isn't new, it's basically a sugar based substitute for traditional black powder so it's tauted as not smelling like rotten eggs, cleans up with only water, noncorrosive, etc. but with the exception of the smell, all of that it true for traditional powder anyway.  The drawbacks to APP as well as other subs is that they require much higher temperature to ignite and readily absorb water.  These attributes can lead to all kinds of problems that you don't get with the real stuff, and forget about using any sub as primer for your flintlock.  What I also found with APP when I tried loading it for CAS ammo is a so called "crud ring", or buildup of powder fouling in the chamber of my revolvers which required more than a little water and elbow grease to remove.  Crud rings have been attributed to another substitute, Triple 7, but I never experienced that when I used it.  The only advantage APP and other subs have is availability due to restrictions that have been placed on traditional black powder.  Most sporting goods stores don't want to comply with all the requirements to carry the real stuff, such as storing it in a locked powder safe, no advertising and paperwork that goes with it and all, while subs can be openly displayed and sold by uneducated employees who don't know the difference between black powder and smokeless, but I digress.  If you can get real black powder in your area there is no need to try any of the subs as you'll only encounter more problems shooting it, and if not I recommend Triple 7 along with magnum #11 caps.  Hope this helps.

[Razor]

I have some APP ...3f
Also 777  &  Pyrodex P..
I acquired it (them) before I found a source of GOEX..
None of it compares to BP in performance.
The only 'advantage' to me is that it is better than nothing. OK, OK, it does have less fouling..
Big performance difference especially in C&B revolvers...
I never went so far as to chrony any of them...
Just Mk I, Mod II eyeball perception of fire, smoke, recoil, speed of ignition..etc in cap guns..
To me, BP is all around mo' bettah...And, yes, I don't mind the fouling of Holy Black.
I really don't care for any of the substitute stuff,  but I won't badmouth anyone who  uses it...
NOTHING but BP in my flinter....period !
Just my 2 cents worth..

[gordy]

       I have to agree with all thats been said .  another point against APP is the shelf life is short . They have sold it under at least three other names . when it first came on the market it went bad on the dealers shelves (Florida) . a muzzle loader dealer I delt with had some cans stacked on a table trying to sell it for a buck a can to get rid of it  most had turned to a solid brick . Most of the subs ignite at over 720 degrees (f.)
real black at 480 degrees (F.) the main reason they fail in flinters . I have used pyrodex RS and P but in caplocks . I have since found a BP dealer and don"t intend to buy any subs again .

[graybear]

Jim Shockey's Gold is supposed to be the premium APP, APP manufactures the powder for Shockey's. I bought a lb of ffG equiv. to try &  I won't even burn it in my 12 ga. I found it to be low powered, inconsistent and a lot of coarse grains. For substitute powder I prefer 777. It's also easy cleaning, just reduce your loads 10-15%. But if you can get it, just use the real deal. just my opinion & experience

[ErikPrice1@msn.com]

 Wow glad I mentioned it, I really don't know a great deal about powder( guess I better get myself educated) , thats why I love this sight. Yesterday me and my buddies went out to shoot a new pedersoli 50 cal flint I just bought. I first shot it with pyrodex and was not impressed, than my friend gave me some REAL fffg and what a difference. Between what you guys have said and what happened I'm a believer . Thanks for the info everyone.

[flintboomer]

Pyrodex rusted my guns, Black Canyon/Cleanshot/American Pioneer/Shockey's Gold worked but didn't have much power, 777 needs a magnum primer.
I prefer REAL BLACK POWDER!

[William]

Wow glad I mentioned it, I really don't know a great deal about powder( guess I better get myself educated) , that's why I love this sight. Yesterday me and my buddies went out to shoot a new pedersoli 50 cal flint I just bought. I first shot it with pyrodex and was not impressed, than my friend gave me some REAL fffg and what a difference. Between what you guys have said and what happened I'm a believer . Thanks for the info everyone.

Glad to have been a positive influence. I learn something new about muzzleloading all the time here on TMC so keep in mind that it's a two way street, we're always interested in your particular experience.  Now that you have seen how real black powder performs it's time to find a local source and start working up the most accurate load in your own rifles, of course keeping us posted while you do so.  Nothing like living vicariously through friends!

[Blackfeet]

I had the same experience as flintboomer, be careful to clean well using Pyrodex. I got lucky in that my present job is located about 60 yds from the only BP dealer in the area.

[ErikPrice1@msn.com]

 Its good to live through other people some times. If it ever stops snowing here and I can get to my shooten area I'll let you know.