color out of style, Grundge in style??

[pilgrim]

     It has been said that back when Buckskining  rule they were a coloful lot what with bead work etc.  But now it seems to be out of style with the new style colors being brown and beige.  No beadwork is worn.
      My question is WHY.  What is pc, not that it really matters but seems strange that  todays style would affect what was/is period correct attire.  I my self dont dress pc, but then dont attend Rondy etc.  If I did, I would want to dress pc to portray time period I would want to relive.  If being dirty is "IN"  then the outfit should also be blood smeared from hunting etc, to be more pc, my 2 cents.
     I enjoy seeing pictures posted here of members and friends in pc clothing etc.  There are those that portray woodsmen/mountainmen  and others that portray colonists in colonial garb.    In none of those pictured do I see Grundge.  But I have seen pictures  of people wearing what appears to be dirty clothes, but then it may be the persona of a woodsman/mountainman  that only washes and showers when it rains or they fall into  a  creek?
     It was mentioned about not wearing bead work.  What caused this turn around from what was?   Is it the cost$$$$$  ?    What timeframe/persona would require bead work be worn?  I would seem natural  the Indians wore bead work, what about mountainmen?   

     

[dfoster]

Color out of style? No, not really. Men especially, back in the day, tended to be like peacocks. Those with higher status wore more colors to show that status, and lower classes tried to emulate the "upper crust."

That being said....the tendency to see so much lack of color now tends to be in 2 areas. Agreed, a woodsman/hunter should show blood smears, mud stains, etc in their gear. My thoughts are that these woodmen would have worn their "normal" clothes into the woods, wouldn't have changed often if at all, and their worn clothing over time would have been grungy.

The other area is that it seems to be more acceptable over the last few years to portray "common" personnae. A common man wouldn't likely have worn their good/expensive/colorful clothing to work in. They'd have worn their older, worn clothing. Between lack of regular washing with the addition of blood, sweat, and tears and mix in whatever the materials were that that person was working with, and you've got grungy. My problem with that is that not everyone was "common."

As far as the issue of beadwork....tends to be overdone as much as those common personnas. Unless portraying native, beadwork (at least in the East, not sure how much during mountainman period) wasn't real common. Europeans would have used a few beads here and there for accents to their clothing/gear. Even then it would have been worn as one would jewelry. Something to show off when wearing their "Sunday best." I've been to events where everyone had beads on everything, with a few darn near beaded head to toe. None portrayed native.

I, myself, love color and nice clothing. Anyone that has seen pics of my Hieland group knows that we do consider ourselves peacocks. And these colors are our best clothing, our workwear, and  and serve well for any other function needed.

Just thoughts from one perspective.

[pilgrim]

     Thanks dfoster.  I have seen pictures of your  Highland group and agree.

[pathfinder]

By reading some of the period trade bills,it seems that castile soap was used, A LOT. I feel it's a misconception that all the woodsmen were dirty all the time and only bathed when it rained or they fell into the creek. Because they didn't know about medical cleanliness,doesn't mean necessarily they didn't pratice personal hygiene. I personally use castile soap and LOVE IT

If someone wants to be a "pig",that's fine. Just because we wear our clothes till they are thread bare doesn't mean you have to smell that way too!

The lack of color is a trend that began when the interest in the Mountain Men shifted to the East and more F&I It's just a matter of evolving. When some felt that they have learned about all there is about the Mountain Men,they moved on.

And dont forget what impact movie's have on our sport. Last of the Mohican's really pushed the F&I thing into high gear just as Charelton Heston and Brian Keith did with their movie. We all went to LOTM in our finest Mountain Men gear,and came out looking to maybe shift to an earlier time,just a little.

Our current M/L culture can follow it's root's to the Bicentennial in 1976. Now that was a time!!!!

I'm glad to have been a part in ALL the versions of this silly game,lot's to look back upon while at the fire late at night...........

[Bulldog lady]

my 2 cents worth,  loving to do the bead and quill ( not very good) it is true to the native tribes with each area having their own unique patterns and color pallets.
i belive many had  everyday dress beadwork from very simple to elaborate for ceremonial clothing. It was also a means of trade as in money.  I have read that a bandoleer bag was worth 3-4 ponies.  much of the early decoration was from shell , bone , quill, feather, and claw , hide etc.  You will find many symbols are similar in representing the 4 winds or directions and the later ones frequently have the cross from the religious inflluence in the latter years.  As to our mt  men. many took natives as wives/concubines  and some became members of the tribes,  If they  had beadwork it probabily was used on the husbands clothing.  This is just my readings and hating to see a very beautiful skill lost.  Alot of the beautiful horse trappings and beaded soles on mocissens were done late in the turn of century when many tribes had been exiled to reservations or when seed bead became very prevenent compared to the earlier much larger ones used as trade item,.  I have no problems being corrected on any of this  .  

[dfoster]

Ted, I agree with all you said.

I think alot of what we see at events is a reflection of Hollywierd in one form or another. From Mountain Men to LoTM to Patriot, etc. when a lot of people start out, that's the image they have in mind of how it was.

With Mountain Men you saw those with full skins, beads, and burly "mountain man" beards.

LoTM brought us long flowing hair and lotsa wampum.

And the Patriot brought about boots with knee straps and carved Cherokee pipehawks.

What it all comes down to is finding where you choose to fit in. And above all, have fun doing it.

Daniel (He who still drags out old film, hollywierd, rondyvous, mountain man influenced gear on occasion. Just because it's fun.)

[Bulldog lady]

Thinking about article or pm from mogrel. you find or pick you persona, research and go from there  We aren't all pea's in a pod, as you said -  go out and have fun even if you are a beach bum with a water pistol and surf board,  ( oh that was bad)   or a native prior to meeting and being corrupted by the white man.   Taking a little part of history and living it ,  praying to the great spririt to guide you. and give thanks for what you have.

[dfoster]

Well said! 

[old salt]

I have to take two different views of this discussion. They have to with where you are with in your time period.
I will take the Rocky Mountain fur trapper, just for simplicity. You can move it to any other time period you wish.
If you are out trapping or hunting you are going to want you outfit to blend in with your surrounding so that you don't attract attention to yourself form your enemies' or the game you are hunting. So you are going to look a little grundge. You will try to stay as clean as the circumstance will allow.
If you are going to be at rendezvous or back in one of the settlements you would more than likely dress to the nines so that the want a bees and the women would know or at least thing you where  for sure a Honest to God Mountain Man.
Just the way I see

[pilgrim]

     Thanks to ALL for your input.  I learn more at TMC.  I even learned about Castile Soap, never heard of it before.  So I just researched Castile soap and stumbled onto some recipes to make Homemade Castile soap.  If you are interested in making your own soap go to  http://www.millersoap.com/castile.html, and page down to find numerous resipes etc.  Sounds interesting, may have  to try my hand at making soap.   
    Again, my thanks to all. 

[cward]

to me it depends on what you're doing. i tend to wipe my hands on my elk hide pants and that really gives them a lived in look. (theres not always a napkin available at a rondy fire) but when i have a sunday morning church service i am usually dressed in my best. so really it's just whatever your persona/time period/conditions/area you are from.

[pathfinder]

I can still get Castile soap at my super market. Makin' candles is messy enough for me. Dont need to add soapmaking!