Hawes 44 Cal

[Mongo40]

I picked up a Brass framed Hawes 44 Cal, according to the marks it was made in 76. Nice an tight an functions well but was really dirty an for some strange reason the barrell was painted black, I stripped the paint off an think I'll just steel wool what blue there is off an have that worn look, I did some searching on line it it looks to be a copy of a Griswold or a Ridgedon, Don't have any pics yet but here are some I got off the web that look like it. This is an original an the only difference I can see is my cylinder is not the smooth but the typical navy type with rolled engraving.


Again, this pic is not mine (I wish) but an photo of an original Griswold,
Above the wedge it is stamped ARMY an along the barrell it says Cal 44 Navy.

I've never owned or shot a cap an ball, been watching a lot of youtube videos on loading an shooting an think I have the jest of it, obviously I'm not new to black powder just these type of pistols. Any recommendations, do's an don'ts, anyone know anything about these Hawes, never heard of them, but the price was right, really wanted an 1860 steel framed Army but this one was available while I was holding the money, I'll still be watching for an Army though. Later
Chris

[Mongo40]

Hummmm! 21 views an noone has a comment or advice for me, that's unusual for this board.

[Dogshirt]

Well, kind of like Quiggley, I never had much use for C&B pistols. I have three, but I haven't shot any of them
in at least 30 years.

[Mongo40]

I can understand that, I'd really like an 1860 Army, I'm hoping one of these days one pops up priced right an I have the money on me to get it. I don't see me shooting it allot just have always wanted me a couple of them.

[mongrel]

Not sure if the Hawes was a Spanish or Italian repro, but if I had to make a guess it'd be Spanish. I leave it to someone who enjoys internet searches more than I do, to verify one or the other or something else entirely.

Is the barrel octagon-to-round (as on the pictured Griswold) or full octagon, as on a true '51 Colt Navy?

The one detail about your gun that for practical use is completely irrelevant, but is still inaccurate in terms of strict historical correctness, is that so far as any surviving or documented examples go, there was never a .44 caliber version of either the actual '51 Colt or the various Confederate copies of the '51. There were a few .44 caliber Confederate revolvers made to roughly the same pattern, but they were larger guns in sheer bulk as well as caliber and are rightly considered copies of the Colt Dragoon revolvers, not the medium-framed Navies.

For most modern uses this point is -- well, pointless. And if a cap-and-ball revolver might just happen to be pressed into duty as what we politely refer to as a "defensive" weapon, the .36 is adequate but the .44 is a whole lot better, and a .44 built on a Navy-sized medium frame is a wickedly fast-handling piece of artillery. The Colt grip, specifically the Navy Colt grip (which is about identical to the grip on the Colt Single Action Army), is about the perfect design for fast point-shooting in average hands. At close range you don't have to aim -- you let the barrel of the gun take the place of your index finger in simply pointing at what you want to hit, use the index finger for pulling the trigger, and if the gun's steady in your hand you will hit not necessary dead-center but close enough to put a stop to most "situations". And as the gun recoils that curved grip rolls through your hand, bringing the thumb right up to where it needs to be to ear the hammer back for another shot, and with a bit of practice the process of cocking the hammer flips the gun back down to level. Point, shoot, repeat. There is a very good, practical reason that someone, somewhere, at some point said, "God made men. Colt made them equal."

You do want to watch your powder charges in any brass-framed revolver. Even the companies that make and distribute them, who would seem to have a vested interest in saying nothing negative about their product, stress than heavy loads will cause the guns to eventually shoot loose (in other words, get out of time and wobbly and gradually fall apart). Dixie Gun Works recommends a loading of 20 grains of 3F under a .451" round ball in the only brass-framed .44 caliber revolver they presently market. How good, bad, or indifferent this combo is, in terms of how near to a maximum loading that's reasonable for this type of gun and what accuracy it will deliver, I don't know. Cap-and-ball wheelguns, in fact handguns in general, aren't my thing. I can use one quite well, I just don't.

Back to fast point-shooting, and a maybe-true story from the old West that makes me smile. A big loudmouth in a saloon caught a much-smaller man in no mood for tolerating nonsense, and the littler guy called him out. At some point the bully realized the man he was about to face off with was a gunfighter, and trying to get out of the situation he protested that this wasn't a fair fight, since he was a much larger target than his opponent. The gunfighter asked the saloonkeeper the fetch a piece of chalk and mark the outline of a man his size on the bully's torso, and promised: "Anything of mine that hits outside the line, don't count."

[Mongo40]

Thanks Mongrel, it looks just like the one pictured, has a dragoon style barrell on it, it seems to be quite larger than a 51 navy as it fits my big hands quite well. Also its Italian made.

[pilgrim]

     If it was made in Europe, there will be proof marks on the barrel.  Every firearm had a proof mark, reguired by law.  From what I understand, in the USA, black powder had no proof requirements. 

   researched internet.  State that the Hawes was made by J P Sauer.  Later known as Sig Sauer  Made the centerfire handguns,  Made in Germany.  .

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/percussion-pistols-a-handgun-when-you-cant-buy-a-handgun/
http://hunting.about.com/od/blackpowder/l/aa_loadcbrev_a.htm

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=115310
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_value_of_an_ivory_handled_44_caliber_black_powder_New_Army_Model_made_in_Italy_for_Hawes_Firearms#sf

http://www.gunsamerica.com/977260769/Schneider_Glassick_Revolver_Hawes.htm


     

[texasranger]

I once bought an old pistol that was painted black. got it home and took off the paint. It was nickel finished under the paint and looked real nice. Guess some just think black or "blued" is how they should be.

[Mongo40]

I want to replace the nipples on this pistol with the ones that take number 11 caps, Track sells them but not sure which ones I should get as there are different threads, does anyone know the thread size is on the Italian made pistols. Thanks
Chris

[mongrel]

I want to replace the nipples on this pistol with the ones that take number 11 caps, Track sells them but not sure which ones I should get as there are different threads, does anyone know the thread size is on the Italian made pistols. Thanks
Chris

Best thing to do, if there's the slightest doubt, is send one of the existing nipples to Track, for them to match.

Dixie Gun Works sells a really good variety of nipples for both American-made and European guns. They list what guns the oddball/metric sizes are for, and in their catalog they very clearly encourage a customer to send them a nipple to match.

You can get yourself into a world of aggravation if you choose a nipple size based on assumption or information about what "most" guns by a certain maker are listed as needing. Outfits like Hawes weren't manufacturers for the most part, they were distributors marketing someone else's product, and it has happened that not only the actual manufacturer but the entire country of origin changed at some point in the time a given distributor marketed a given model. Your revolver is a case in point -- the info Pilgrim came up with on the internet indicates Germany as the location of the actual manufacturer, and that tallies with some of Hawes' cartridge guns, such as repros of the Colt SAA. However, you stated (and I'm guessing this is based on it being stamped on the gun) that the country of manufacture is actually Italy. There's no reason to assume the Germans and Italians used the same thread pitch on their nipples. I know for a fact the Italians and spanish didn't, and don't -- most but not all Italian muzzleloading rifles use a 6x.75mm nipple thread but most (but not all) the Spanish rifles take a 6x1mm.

Either be absolutely sure what YOUR gun takes (not what works on a very similar gun owned by someone here) or send a nipple in along with your order.

[pilgrim]

     After further searching, it appears the Hawes may have been manufactured in Italy.  ???Schneider & Glassick??    So confusing as to WHO actually manufactured WHAT.

    http://rprca.tripod.com/schneider.htm

     http://www.gunsamerica.com/977260769/Schneider_Glassick_Revolver_Hawes.htm

[Hawken50]

I have to echo Mongtels post.When i first started shootin six killers,i ran into a 60 army that a feller had replaced the nipples on.Seems like there was also two differant lenghths for that diameter nipple.I must say his chainfire was spectaculer.

[beowulf]

a good chain fire can put you off percussion revolvers for a long time, if it dont cripple your meathooks ! no sense taking chances !