New to BP and Need a gun.

[kirchemgriffith]

I am new to BP and this forum. I am on the hunt for a gun, but not sure what I should be looking for. I don't have alot if money to spend either. Any suggestions? I know that I want a traditional gun, not synthetic.

[William]

I am new to BP and this forum. I am on the hunt for a gun, but not sure what I should be looking for. I don't have alot if money to spend either. Any suggestions? I know that I want a traditional gun, not synthetic.

Traditional is good since we don't talk about synthetic, modern designs here.  What will you be using your muzzle loader for?  Hunting, target shooting, a little of both?  For small game up to deer the .45 is one to think about but maybe a little big for squirrels.  In small calibers you've got the .32, .36 and 40 calibers which are dandy target shooters but aren't going to be suitable for hogs and deer.

For a good, entry level muzzle loader, Lyman rifles are pretty good bang for the buck options, such as the Trade Rifle which comes in either 50 or 54 caliber and can be purchased new for a little more than $300.  One thing to think about though, is getting a rifle that fits you instead of trying to fit yourself to something just because it was affordable.  Too many times folks get into muzzle loading and end up dropping it because they aren't getting favorable results or are shooting something uncomfortable that doesn't fit them.  Learn how to measure your length of pull and then try to find something that fits you instead of looking at price alone.

[flintboomer]

Like William said, fit is important. If you are 5' 8" to 5' 11" an off the shelf rifle will probably fit you just fine, but there are a number of things to think about.
What will you use it for?
Do you prefer half stock or full stock
Have you seen/shot/handled anything yet?
Are you slim like William, average like me, or "stout"?
Is your budget just a little tight, or EXTREMELY tight?
Is there someone or a club that can help?

There are other considerations, but this is a start.
Good luck

[kirchemgriffith]

Thank you for the helpful feed back guys. I plan on doing both hunting and target shooting, mostly the latter. I think I prefer the look of the Kentucky long rifle. I am going to my first Rendezvous at the end of his month. I hope to get the opportunity to hold a few different styles and get a better idea of what I want.

[William]

That is a great way to try out different styles and see which one you like best, although I am always drawn to the ones I can't afford.  Contact whomever is in charge of the rendezvous you'll be attending and see if they might have a loaner that you can use while you're there or maybe get paired with a mentor that can show you the ropes. 

Since you'll be doing both target shooting and hunting with your muzzle loader I suggest that you consider calibers that are .45 and up to start with.  I know that plenty of hogs and deer have fallen to .40's and even .36's but save those for when you add a dedicated squirrel rifle to your collection.

[pilgrim]

     I started out the same way about 2 years ago.  The mistake I made was to be in too much of a hurry,  You need to fully search you mind and different guns before your purchase.  As William and Flintboomer stated, follow their advice.  But also, I suggest contacting Mongrel, he builds affordable rifles.  And the rifle will fit you like a deerskin glove.  By that I mean, a perfect fit.  May also want to check out gunbroker.com auction for used rifles.  Above all, DONT get the first rifle you see.     But rest assured, the first rifle, will not be the last rifle.  Enjoy.

[gunmaker]

Try to look at as many different styles of rifles as you can, pic's or real.  Rifles are like women!  some will speak to you ---some won't.  Take your time, look, look & look some more.  If you talk to mongrel he'll be able to give you some ideas, his work shines....Tom

[Hanshi]

Mongrel is a great source of fine working rifles and they are custom built.  Check for used guns, too.

[flintboomer]

Thank you for the helpful feed back guys. I plan on doing both hunting and target shooting, mostly the latter. I think I prefer the look of the Kentucky long rifle. I am going to my first Rendezvous at the end of his month. I hope to get the opportunity to hold a few different styles and get a better idea of what I want.

For hunting and target shooting I suggest a .45 or .50. A .54 will work for both but is more expensive to shoot, and larger bores will add both cost and recoil.
If you go to a shooting rondy most people will be happy to let you try their guns, but please try not to distract someone who is in the middle of loading during a timed relay. Watch what is going on and talk to them when they are finished with their target. Someone will probably have a gun or two for sale, but don't buy the first one you see.

[Red Badger]

If you will consider a half stock, I have a .54 cal "hawkin" replica - not sure of the manufacturer but It is almost identical to my "Cabellas" .54.  I bought it from a member who needed money when I had some to spare so will let it go for what I paid for it... PM me and I'll get pictures for you

[Black Jack]

Since this is posted in the percussion forum, I assuming that you prefer caplocks to flintlocks.  For someone just starting out, percussion is arguably the simplest way to go (although many diehard flintlock shooters will disagree with me!). I own a few of each, and the flinters are a lot of fun and the fact that they are a little more temperamental and tedious just adds to the fun. When you get bitten by the bug, you will probably end up owning both also. Although I admire the looks of a full stocked longrifle also, I would suggest that a halfstock "plains rifle" for your first muzzleloader makes a lot of sense because it is (to me and most others) quite a bit easier to be able to remove the barrel for scrubbing when cleaning the rifle at the end of the day. I also believe that you would be well advised to start with a decent quality production gun. It will require experience and learning before you really develop a stong sense of what you would like in a custom rifle before laying out any big bucks. One I would recommend you consider is the Lyman Great Plains rifle. It is a reasonable facsimile (though certainly not an exact copy) of the famed Hawken rifle and is at home at informal rendezvous and club shoots. It also lends itself to target shooting much better than the less expensive Trade Rifle. Of course, the rodie you are attending may be held at a club which you decide to join and where everyone else is shooting a flint longrifle, so  you may want to "fit in".  In either case, a new quality factory rifle is not cheap these days. You can sometimes pick up a good deal on a used rifle, but unless you inspect it in person with a bore light (impossible on internet sales), you don't really know the condition of the bore. This is always a worry with me since black powder residue from an uncleaned, or improperly cleaned, barrel invites corrosion. If you do decide on the Lyman, I would recommend the .54.  It makes for a slightly lighter rifle with significantly more killing power than a .50 (I have both calibers). Finally, another good option would be to contact Mike Lange ("Mongrel" on this board), who is a custom builder well known for building rifles the average man can purchase for about the price of a good factory piece. I have never personally dealt with him, but I have seen and drooled over some of his work pictured on this site. He has a sterling reputation and his work carries a lifetime guarantee. Apologize for being so long-winded and good luck on your journey of discovery.

[beowulf]

one good reason for a halfstock is price . you can get a good hawken or mountain rifle sometimes as low as $200 , full stock guns tend to cost a bit more . not really sure why ! but cva , tc, lyman are all good starter rifles !

[mongrel]

I've never been sure why that is, either. From the standpoint of building, a halfstock with an underrib and a wedge key (or two) that has to be precisely located (unlike pins where you just drill straight through the stock and underlug at the same time) is somewhat more a PITA than a fullstock. Maybe the cost of the extra wood or the fact that that extra wood is more likely than metal parts are to be damaged, in working it, has something to do with the relative cost. Maybe (in spite of what you'd think from reading forums like this one) there's less overall demand for the fullstocks, and therefore they're less cost-effective to produce since not as many are sold. Remember that there are a great many BP hunters who like "traditional" guns but aren't into any of the "traditional" aspect of the sport, other than hunting. For them the halfstocks are the preferred type, for reasons that Black Jack expressed quite well.

Dunno.

[shootrj2003]

The only cheap full stock I've had was an old CVA I bought at a yard sale for 100.00 years ago I refinished it and sold it to a gunstore for 200.00 ,I 'm positive it was a kit gun done poorly and when I was done it really looked much nicer.My other one is a Blue Ridge rifle in .36 given to me by my friends wife when he died,having it given to me started me to seriously consider rock locks ,for years I only shot BP in. My percussions,the past couple of years has me courting the flint side ,and I wish I had done more sooner.