All right, I am so excited about this, I just wanted to go over everything again, other than my awesome rifle purchase, so far this hasn't been near as financially draining as I thought it would be...so I wanted to go over what I will be taking at the end of the month, and see if it's gonna be enough, too much or just right...I know many of you have done this before, and a lot so I need your input. So, here goes....
Clothing:
2 piece center seam moccs that I made (moccs, and just over the knee leggings)
3 pairs of hand knit all wool socks my sister made for me(solid, dark brown)
1 pair of drop front trousers
2 knee length shirts- one white/ one blue checks
(I'm taking my 21st century boxers, and that's non negotiable) ;)
My 5 dollar felt hat with a beaded band I made
2 all white bandannas (just 49 cents at Michaels on clearance)
1 fringed and caped hunters frock dark brown
I was thinking about working up a spare pair of moccassins to throw in my bedroll
Sash/legties
Shelter:
One open ended wedge tent, A frame style, I sewed leather patches over the grommets, and ran hemp loops through them with wood toggles
12 tent pegs(nail style, but removed plastic tops)
200 feet hemp rope
paillasse I made from two cheap linen tablecloths, sewn on three sides, with four pewter buttons on the fourth edge
2 solid wool blankets that I re-edged with yarn, and picked up at a garage sale, one solid blue, one solid red ( I used red edging on the blue, and blue edging on the red, and they look awesome)
1 oil cloth bedroll cover made from cheap walmart canvas, and prepared using of all things, brown deck stain...which has linseed oil in it, I started that project about a month ago, it's still drying at my parents house, but my mom assures me it's looking good, and should be ready by the time I leave on the 27th, I'll be picking it up, while I am dropping my dachsund off.
Food Preparation:
1 squirrel cooker/ with case I made
1 folding handle frying pan
1 corn boiler
1 canoe cup/noggin with elk antler crown toggle I made
1 horn spoon
6 small canvas bags for coffee, bisquick, parched corn, dried fruit, oatmeal, and jerky
1 salt horn, tin container with other spices
(gonna have a cooler in the car for fresh meat, bacon n eggs, and cold beer) I will try a few traditional recipes while there, but I am an eater, so I'm planning on some other stuff as well. :)
2 one quart canteens
(21st century water purifier, just in case)
flint and steel kit with small pouch I made for it.
Pouches, etc.
Belt bag with loop for bag axe, and small knife sheath attached
small leather bound journal for contacts, and storing business cards, recording thoughts while there
shooting bag with accoutrements (THANKYOU DAVID!)
market wallet
tumpline for securing bedroll/stuff
tool pouch for knapping hammer screwdrivers and a small vice, spare ventpick and tow worm
Weaponry:
50 cal rifle
tomahawk (head and handle from Track, I hafted it, poured the accents thanks to advice from this site, and wrapped the top and sewed the leather wrap, treated the handle with about 5 coats of Tung oil, then hand rubbed the final wax finish in, and it gleams. That Tung oil is good stuff)
Belt knife
patch knife
Bag Axe
Odds and Ends:
Sewing kit
Toiletries (bar soap, toothbrush, small towel, etc.)
21st Century first aid kit(you never know)
pouch for ID, wallet, FOID card, car keys
Tobacco pouch and pipe
Whew! It sounds like a lot.....but it actually fits in 2 duffel bags......so, advice? comments? lose some? get more? Am I ready?
Thanks!
-Ray.
That looks great! Hope you have a super great time. Get lots of pictures for us.
OH yeah, just a couple of final thoughts and questions....
1.) What is the "etiquette" of taking pictures....I plan on having my digital camera with me in my belt bag, but this will be a 1st as a participant....always ask permission etc.? I have always been a tourist in research mode before this...do folks get "funny" if you whip out your camera and start snapping away when in character?
2.) How many of you guys carry a spare lock for your flintlock to these things? I can't wait to compete, but I don't want to lose out because I was an idiot and didn't think ahead.....
As for the camera I use two methods 1 I am discreet or some times you would think I was in spy mode. 2 Other times I will ask some one pose. I have never had any problems with either method. If in doubt ask the worst thing they can say is no pictures,
The only time I have been ask not to take pictures was at a pow wow, and they were very polite when they ask me not to take pictures of certain parts.
I'd say your more than ready, have a great time, and oh ya pics pics pics thmbsup
Your more prepared than i was for my first....
my only suggestions would be:
if water is not readily available I would get a water jug and wrap it with canvas or if you can find a box to cover it s it can't be seen....
some sort of fire ring or brazier to contain your fire, don't want to start a grass fire! and find out if wood is supplied/available or if you have to bring your own....
As for pictures, Lots! I have never had a problem setting "Patience" down and pulling out the camera... most of us seem to enjoy it when we take each others pictures...
I really love watchin a "pilgrim" get into this great hobby of ours. I love how, and we've all done it, we plan, get excited, don't sleep at night... and everything else that goes with it.
You look like you have everything well planned. The only thing I would add is buy a few gallons of spring water from the store to take with you. Save yourself a lot of port o' john hassle and don't drink the water from the buffaloe. That stuff alright to cook with and do dishes but I wouldn't drink it...
You would also serve yourself well if you picked up a military surplus folding shovel. You will use this for digging your fire pit. I also dig a shallow hole in the ground for my gray water and bury my left overs if they do not have a dumpster around. Although there ain't nuthin funnier than watchin a pilgrim chase a coon out of their trash bag! ROFL
which brings me to... a trash bag, and a gunny or cloth feed sack to put said trash bag in to cover it up.
Make yourself up a couple wood boxes to stow your gear in and to use as a stool to sit on whist at camp too.
Let's see.... yup you can still pack all that into a hatchback! hdslp When you get your family into this hobby you will have to have 2 mules and a wagon to haul all your shi... I mean stuff to rendezvous! pnic
hdslp A shovel! That was one of the "basics" I completely forgot!!!! THANK YOU! And yes...gonna probably need some trash bags, a feedbag is a good idea for that...its the UP and there are bears around from what I understand. So, I'm gonna limit food in camp, probably have to make a few more walks to the car for supplies ie at mealtime, but I've been camping all my life and know how to keep a clean site. There's the rub, between practical, and what will be expected for visual aesthetics ya know? I wouldn't mind finding me a good trout stream up there either, may not be period correct, but I would like to take my fly rod out and see how the UP compares to the Blackfoot outside of Missoula, or even the Gallatin outside of ole Yellowstone.....mmmmm....trout. ;D Here's where I am gonna go. www.mwpr2010.com it'd be kinda neat to run into some of you folks up there, but I know it's a bit of a drive...12 hours or so from where I am sitting. Thanks for the tips.
dntn
That looks like an AWESOME site!!! You can come pretty close to trout fishin the PC way if you put a little thought into it. Instead of a fly rod, try an ol fashion willow stick or bamboo pole. for line there is a wide assortment of linen and silk cordage out there at the craft stores. For lures, I'm sure you have plenty of hand tied flys around. Here is a link http://www.historicanglingenterprises.com/ (http://www.historicanglingenterprises.com/) here's another one...http://eclecticangler.com/ (http://eclecticangler.com/)
Looks like a shinin time to be had! Take plenty of pics and bring home lots of memories! thmbsup
Okay, so I get that this is a learning process that I will (hopefully) become better at over time, one of the reasons that I wanted to join this site is that it seemed like there were a lot of realistic, open minded and cool people here that are willing to help and give me (and others as well) advice and constructive criticism that I can learn from. One of the reasons I haven't frequented too many other chat/discussion areas is the "other" people that aren't neccessarily like the members on this forum...'nuff said. So now I am going out into the real world, where I am probably gonna run into some of those "other" people...how do you tactfully and gracefully handle it without basically telling them "Go .... yourself!" ? Or is that basically how ya'll handle them? I'm just curious....gonna be there for a week, and I KNOW I'm gonna do some stuff wrong, and I am open minded about it...but I am hoping the good helpful types are gonna outnumber the "I have a stick shoved so FAR up......." well, you get the idea. Maybe it's not tactful to even ask this question about threadcounters, but I'm basically a friendly guy, I'm in retail management and I have a high patience threshold, but then again, I am gonna be on vacation so...... ???
There are two ways to handle those folks 1. just go on as if you did noty hear them.
2. Just say I am soory but I am new at this.
You're going to the Mid West Primative, not the Grand Encampment (a juried event). You are going to see people walking around camp in tennis shoes and painters pants carrying beer cans. This is how these people have been doing it for the last ten years and have no desire to improve. When you get there you will easily see the folks who take the hobby seriously without being critical of others. Seek these people out and get to know them, ask questions and learn from them. When I go without my wife, I set a proper camp and have a proper appearance. I am always learning and improving my gear. Go and have fun. Look around and see what you might want to change for the next time, but most importantly, HAVE FUN.
You will learn. Blow off the idjits, there will always be the "holier than thou" bunch. They were rookies once, now they are impressed with themselves. With any luck, they will get past that. If not, they may pause to wonder why everybody but their small minded group hang out elsewhere...
BTW, you are more than welcome in our camp. Don't forget the jug...
Quote from: Rev on July 07, 2010
You will learn. Blow off the idjits, there will always be the "holier than thou" bunch. They were rookies once, now they are impressed with themselves. With any luck, they will get past that. If not, they may pause to wonder why everybody but their small minded group hang out elsewhere...
BTW, you are more than welcome in our camp. Don't forget the jug...
AMEN! and where is this jug??? I am thirsty....
You are off to a great start and are way ahead of me at my first one. I started with some donated clothes, my brothers old rifle,a couple wool blankets, axe, tin plate, wood bowl, copper cup, clay pipe, a canvas tarp, some sapling poles, and manila rope to make a la'vous. Now if I was to try taking EVERYTHING I would just about need a Freightliner. As for dealing with the thread counters, if they comment negatively about something,, ask them how long they have been doing vous then explain to them that you are new to it and are still working on perfecting your camp. Then ask them how long it will take to get all the "CORRECT GEAR" and what it will cost and how long it took them to get to the point they are at. Then ask them how long it will take for you to learn all the proper etiquet and skills. By that point they will know you are notsomone who just doesnt care but they will often be overwhelmed enough that they will back off and think about what they went through when they first started. I weent throiugh that a while back with one of the local legends of the rondy circuit and had no problems with him after that--in fact none of the people in any of the camps did after that. Years back we had another thread counter show up and he just wouldnt let up on anyone until one guy asked him if he would buy the ones who were not PC in his eyes the gear they needed to be so. He grumbled and griped for a few minutes then left.
Where abouts are you living at that you have a 12 hour drive to get there?
Voy
Actually Voy it's about 7.5 hours or so, but I am factoring in the two hour drive south to drop the dog, and the 2 hours back to my starting point before I leave. ;D If I could just go straight there....it's be a lot less. He's a pretty good dog though and worth it, but he'd lose his mind at something like this, and would end up sleeping it off for weeks if I took him with. BTW, thankyou all for your always excellent advice! I wanna be polite to "others" but kinda wanna send em away with a burr under the saddle as well without losing my cool. blah Being prepared for the worst in my opinion has always been better than getting caught cold and not knowing what to say or do. After all I didn't want to overreact and maybe leave a bad impression with people who genuinely might be interested in helping me. LOL! I may want to go back next year after all. I am really looking forward to some of the seminars too...learning new stuff.
Seminars? now ya done did it.... I want a full book report on them thar seminars within the week of your return....
Items to be covered must include:
What the seminar was about...
what materials did you need...
How well you learned the material...
Your score will be based on if I can understand enough to learn it secondhand without going to the seminar...
passing score - you get to shoot "Patience" when we finally meet...
Failing score - you have to listen to us some more and keep at it....
ROFL ROFL
And that was from the man I have to stand over with a club to teach. hdslp ROFL ROFL blah blah
Quote from: old salt on July 08, 2010
And that was from the man I have to stand over with a club to teach. hdslp ROFL ROFL blah blah
hdslp blah ROFL ROFL ROFL
Yup, what Rev said. You'll find out that there are not as many thread counters in the rendevousing scene as there are in the re-enactment scene. Skinners are much more laid back and remember the first rendezvous they went to in an old borrowed calico shirt and a pair of painter pants with a pair of philadelphia derringers tucked into their belt (that was me blah). You'll do fine, dont worry about it so much. You have your stuff together more right now than I did when I was 5 years into the hobby... hdslp
Book reports?!?!?!?!? No one said anything about book reports.....what if I can't read or write.....wait a minute..... (susp) I just went and one upped myself...... hdslp
Actually there is a quilling one I want to go to....I'm thinking quillwork might be right handy to know how to do, and I think theres a metal working, and leatherworking, and scrimshawing one too....I will take lotsa pics and notes as well. Might be kinda fun to look at it as an assignment. That way....HEY! Has anyone ever done an 18th century JOURNALIST character...? How cool would that be? Maybe headin west to chronicle one those there rendezvous for folks to read about in the papers back east.......talk about a fun persona!!!
Trout, please check out the quilling one, see if'm they got some ways to make them longer so don't have to add a new one every two bends. (it is a fun and labor intensive craft) have only played with it a few times but well rewarding. watch where ya put them clipped barbed ends, they got magnetic properties and end up where ya least expect them,!!! Love to see a journal- got stuff for quill pens if you a thread counter (heehee) do this for fun, then get serious later, but back to subject. Have some old family histories, (peach brandy) and such and I always find my self engrossed in reliving the old days, Go for it, Do expect a full documentation and pics when return, :-*
Quote from: hrayton on July 08, 2010
Book reports?!?!?!?!? No one said anything about book reports.....what if I can't read or write.....wait a minute..... (susp) I just went and one upped myself...... hdslp
Actually there is a quilling one I want to go to....I'm thinking quillwork might be right handy to know how to do, and I think theres a metal working, and leatherworking, and scrimshawing one too....I will take lotsa pics and notes as well. Might be kinda fun to look at it as an assignment. That way....HEY! Has anyone ever done an 18th century JOURNALIST character...? How cool would that be? Maybe headin west to chronicle one those there rendezvous for folks to read about in the papers back east.......talk about a fun persona!!!
There ya go!
Well seeing as I am one of those "others" I will add my opinion.
If you want to learn these are the best people to talk to. They know thier stuff for the most part. There are the guys that like to grandstand and look down on others. But the real ghuys that are ui=into the material culture and the research side of it are always willing to hel pa guy improve just to awnser questions and point you in the right direction to begin your own research.
Actually I think there are some people on forums like this one that like nothing more than to see a guy at an event that is dressed impecibly and looks like he stepped out of a Miller painting and label him a stitch counter or worse a stitch nazi.
The reason for this si so they can justify thier "interpretation" of history. The facts are th facts. One cannot change history and ad to it and take from it what they like.
I have heard coments said behind my back about being one of them just because of the way I was dressed. Yet the person did not bother to talk to me and find out I was a good dude.
Anyway the others are for the most part willing to help and awnser questions. And if a guy has such a high opinion of himself and decides to comment on your outfit with out knowing you tell him to stick it up his ass then challenge him to throw down. I would bet you a dollar he wont take you up on you offer. I have found that people that are willing to run thiers motuhs are rarley willing to back it up.
I have seen other events listed online, that seemed designed to exclude others, and while I can understand it to the letter, I guess I don't get it for the spirit of it all ya know? These same sites practically scream out, "If you don't agree with me, I will attack you verbally, try to humiliate you, and take what you say out of context to prove MY point." Then get others to do the same...but the hypocrisy of it all is, in another thread on the same site they are bemoaning the fact and wailing that no one wants to play with them anymore...I just like to have a good time within reason, I like to camp, I like to be outside under the stars sleeping at night and listening to the wind through the trees, and when I am out there I like to wake up early, and watch the sun come up with a cup of coffee in my hand, and a cheery little fire at my feet, and see the day break through the treetops. The reason I mentioned "others" is that I get the distinct impression that they are worried more about what other people are doing than trying to take enjoyment from their own journey through life, and I think that maybe they are missing the point of being there entirely. I wanted to know how to handle the people whose sole purpose in life is to point out the shortcomings of others, without alienating folks who just wanna give me a pointer or two. I guess I am less interested in documentation than I am in experience. "Documentation" is the reason I left Academia behind many many moons ago...because I gotta tell ya one simple fact, unless they are packin a reference library out in their Freightliner in the parking lot, there is no way to document anything at one of these gatherings. One thing I know to be true is that people 200 years ago had the same priorities as people today....find what works and use it to make your life easier, we wouldn't BE HERE where we are today if they didn't. I'm still not sure if that is a positive or a negative thing...we have pictures, and sketches, letters, and family journals, and occasionally we have an artifact or two handed down to us, but the simple fact of it all is we have NO IDEA how these folks lived, and looked, and behaved other than the clues they left behind...we just have to live and learn and try, and sometimes it starts with a first outing like the one I have coming up. I have read a lot more books than most people I know, I have travelled farther, and visited more places than most folks I come into contact with, and in many ways I have been blessed to experience things that no one else has been able to do....and one thing is crystal clear to me....the more I see, experience, learn, read, and explore....the more I realize I know nothing.....nothing at all. The world is simply too large and full of wonderful things to know it all.
Ahh the sweetness of discourse... While we all agree that there are some people and some events that seem to enjoy tearing a person apart for not be 100% there are others where a person is welcomed with open arms just for the attempt...
Thread counting does have it's place... anywhere a person is volunteering or being paid to historically recreate a situation... but there are and should be events for people to get the practice and pointers they need to perfect their image... Some of us are not so deeply into the historical significance and just want to dress up and shoot our black powder guns, others take it a might more serious... Either one is correct. The world is not black and white, and we need to remember that the pilgrim needs to experience things in order to learn.
All that being said I do have an opinion on the statement "... The reason for this si so they can justify thier "interpretation" of history. The facts are th facts. One cannot change history and ad to it and take from it what they like..." History from my point of view is not fixed, the victor writes the history and then the "facts" are made to conform to that image... until another set of "facts" are found that totally wipe out the first set... and so on.... In other words History is fluid with the "facts" changing every now and then...
Look at what is being taught as "History" in our schools these days...
When we talk about juried events or historical reenactments they are stricter on dress and equipment because they are portraying history in a particular place and time. They are living history, and are trying to teach it as near to the actual fact as possible. There fore they have the right if not the obligation to demand that people conform to certain standards
A pre 1840 time frame on the other hand can stretch back 200-250 years there fore it is hard to limit just what an individual should wear or the equipment that they will have.
The problem we run into is when mixing the participants is that some of the living History group think that there way is the only, that is not to say that some of the rendezvous folks are not just as bad on the other side of the coin in not trying to correct.
Most of us rendezvous folks are first stage to get people interested in living history. We start with the basics to get you started. If you decide that you want to go strictly period correct most of us can and will help you do so, but if you show up at your first event and I jump on you with both feet about what you are wearing or the equipment you have 9 chances out 10 you will not come back.
The biggest problem I have with what we call thread counters are the ones that tell folks that they have to dress a certain way to partsipate and are not dressed properly themselves. Unless it is a juried even most living history even will make allowances for medical reasons. To give an example, I was at the Woolarock event some years ago while setting up turned my angle and was wearing my lace boots when one of the dog soldiers ask if I thought they were period correct, my answer was no sir but on the other hand I don't believe the pins and wire would be either, the man looked at me smiled and said you know sometime I ask some dumb questions, have fun and enjoy your stay. Most of the time I were moccasins, but at time I am forced to wear the boots. I have never been ask about the since.
I said all of this to show that both groups are necessary, the fine art is to know when to say some thing and when to ask questions before saying something to a person about what they are wearing or the equipment they have.
OK I will get off my soap box
QuoteHistory from my point of view is not fixed,
I have to disagree withtis statement. history is fixed. But on the flip when it comes to historical interepretation never say never because as soon as you do someone will prove you wrong.
I am off trach here the point I wanted to make in my erlier post was that just because a guy is more into the historical side of it than you dont assume he is a jack ass. Now if he is acting like one call him on it.
Going to rendezvous and getting mad because people are not up to ones own standards is like going to the proctologist getting supprised when he sticks his finger up your ass.
Now if you are at an event that has set standards expect to follow those standards or go home. strpot
Quote from: Red Badger on July 14, 2010
there are others where a person is welcomed with open arms just for the attempt...
THAT is EXACTLY what I like about THIS site. thmbsup That ole Dryball knew what he was doin'....
I understand what both Trout and Julius is saying. I was a pilgrim at one time, and let me tell you, my first set of gear was no where as good as what Trout has going for his first vous. I, like Julius, strive for historical accuracy. Just about everything in my camp is fairly PC. No, I don't hand stitch all my clothes, just button holes and other obvious places. But I do strive for correctness. I however do NOT pick on anyone elses gear though. In our hobby, we have everyone from bikers to preists and everything in between. Some folks just love the smell of wood and BP smoke and I welcome them every bit as much as I welcome all. We have to keep this hobby alive, not discourage anyone, new or old. I'm not a good writer. I hope everyone gets my meaning.
Trout, just have fun. Ignore the A holes, learn something new, and just generally enjoy yourself. I still get just as excited the week before a vous as I did when I was new!
"... I still get just as excited the week before a vous as I did when I was new!..."
I think we all do - or we wouldn't be here!
I'M A GREENHORN TOO. [LONGHUNTER PERIOD]. I'VE FOUND THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE REALLY TRYING TO HELP WHEN THEY QUESTION YOU AND GIVE ADVISE TO HELP YOU GET WHERE YER A WANTIN TO GO. THERE'S THE FEW THAT CAN GET PLUMB SNOBBISH ABOUT IT TOO. AFTER SAYIN THAT I'M JUST GETTIN STARTED AND THEY KEEP IT UP I MENTION IF THEY WANT TO BUY IT FER ME I'LL BE PROUD TO USE/WEAR IT. IT USUALLY SHUTS THEM UP. IF NOT JUST ASK IF THEY'VE EVER BEEN WARPED UP SIDE THE HEAD WITH A NON PERIOD CORRECT AX HANDLE OR SOMETHIN.
ONE MORE THING YOU MAY WANT TO HAVE ON HAND THAT'S NOT P/C AND THAT'S TOILET PAPER. YOU MAY HAVE A HARD TIME FINDIN LEAVES OR GRASS TO DO THE JOB WITH.
Why thankyou Briar! thmbsup I've been making my own paper for that, but I may just have to take one of those store bought rolls along! LOL! An extra axe handle probably won't hurt either. ;) I think it's all gonna work out, just looking forward to the journey and taking lots of pics. If nothing else it will be an excuse to do a little camping, and get out of the city for a few days. Plus, I may even get a few pointers and meet some folks to wanna go back next year...and if not, maybe I'll trek to the southwest, and get a tent site next to Rev...he seems to go to a fair amount of good ones. I'm counting down the days guys! 5 more work days, and then I am off!!!! It's gonna rock.
thmbsup strpot Always remember if the vous's anywhere near Badgers hunting ground......take an extry jug.
Quote from: Hawken50 on July 21, 2010
thmbsup strpot Always remember if the vous's anywhere near Badgers hunting ground......take an extry jug.
ahhh I will have you know I don't do a lot of imbibing at most of the Vou's i go to.... Old Salt keeps me to busy as a Dog Soldier to party..... And if the firearms are out I am a 100% certified teetotaler! will never mix booze and firearms (or even sharp pointy things!)
ROFL blah strpot Ahhhh but round a campfire......
Guess I'm going to have to bring my jug around to one of the 'vous down that way. You see, up here my jug is named the "Evil Jug" and is banned in many camps at the 'vous I attend. My jug starts with a bottle of Jeremiah Weed; it's a 100 proof bourbon liqueur, very pleasant tasting with a touch of sourwood honey for sweetness, but strong. So to temper it and mellow it a little bit, I put a bottle of EverClear in the jug with it. I go around in the evenings from camp to camp totin' my jug and sharin' it with anyone who cares for a touch or two. Mind you, I never tip my jug until I get back to my own camp for the evening. It's hard on the knees crawling back to camp at the end of the night, then I have only a little touch to put me to sleep. Some folks do seem to have a rough time shooting the next morning, can't figure out why.
chrrs
I don't have any trouble with the Badger at roundys as I do not think he likes to drink alone. My self as a non practicing alcoholic don't drink any more. Although while I was still in the Army I was known to take the troops to the bars at the end of cycle and watch them get stupid.