Mostly wondering if 40. is enough for deer. Its leagle in my state ta use, but is it just as good as a 50. or close.
Id like to build a rifle this winter but couldnt make up my mind ta do a rifle for small game or deer. ahh :P then it came to me.
What you guys think
IF you hit it right, i am sure it will take a deer, most states say .45 as a minimum.
What is the twist on the barrel?
With a small caliber, i myself would use a conical, to get as much energy as possible into the target.
Who is it made by?
Show us some pictures. (we like pictures)
Tell us about it!.
Ian
If you pick your shot , heart, lung only and keep to 50-60 yds I dont see any problem with a 40 cal.
Um. I got ta build it first.
You asked for opinions and I'll give you mine...we're only talking about a tiny 92grn ball here with a tiny little frontal area which carries only a tiny little bit of energy.
An excellent caliber for targets and small game...and yes, just as deer have occasionally been killed with a .22cal bullet, a .40cal ball under exceptional circumstances have / will kill a deer....under exceptional circumstances...not normal circumstances.
IMO a .40cal is not in the same league as general purpose deer calibers...not a caliber to intentionally leave the house with expecting it to perform as a general purpose deer caliber under all the varied hunting conditions of unknown distances, imperfect lighting, bones, etc, etc.
I have one and love it...but I don't leave the house with it to go deer hunting...smallest I'll use is a .45cal/128grn ball and even then I know going in that I have strict built in restrictions and only carry it if I know I'm sitting on a specific stand overlooking a trail/ditch crossing at a close 25 yards.
My .02 cents...
Point taken.
I never even looked into what grn. the PRBs would be for 40.
I agree that wouldt be a good idea.
Gess Il just have ta have a few more guns lyin around here then
chrrs
OOOPPPSSS!
i missed that part in the first post.
"Id like to build a rifle"
Ian
I think that you would really enjoy a .40, but not for deer.
I have been shooting one for 4 years now. Very accurate.
I usually score well on paper and perform great on trail walks.
If I were to go deer tipping, I would take the .50 or something bigger perhaps.
This past weekend, on a trail walk with mixed targets of steel and sugar candy items, the steel plate hanging targets barely moved from being hit by the .40. The pard next to me with the .54, definetely moved the steel.
For me, I would be wanting a bit more energy going into my animal, for a more qiuck and humane kill.
my $0.02
Quote from: foxriver50 on October 19, 2009, 02:03:18 AM
Mostly wondering if 40. is enough for deer. Its leagle in my state ta use, but is it just as good as a 50. or close.
Id like to build a rifle this winter but couldnt make up my mind ta do a rifle for small game or deer. ahh :P then it came to me.
What you guys think
Foxriver50:
Let me tell you a story, I have a 50cal Flinter first two years I took a doe each bang flops head shots, 3rd year was out with my dad had a 12pt about 280-250 lbs tried, heart, lung ball apparently hit a heavy rib and deflected lost trail, I'm now trying to save for my dream Rifle A 58 Hawken full stock flinter with a 42 in 1 1/4 tapering to 1in with a slow twist. A 58 comes in at 277 grn. but I may go for a 62 insted
I have a .40 and really like it for a number of reasons. But I guess I'll have to be the contrary one in this discussion. The .40 is a good all around rifle. What most folks don't realize is that the .40 churns up about the same energy as a .41 mag revolver! I've killed several deer with my .41 mag., all one shot kills. I think the .40 will do fine on deer if you keep your shots, say, not over 50 - 60 yards and don't try stem to stern shots. Also stay away from shoulder bones; I do that even with my .45! The .40 is a great squirrel to deer rifle.
An OLD injun friend of ma Great Gdaddy (back up in Maine), said he never used nuttin biggern a .22 fer MOOSE. Asked him (I were only 9 at the time), why he didn't use sometin bigger. Said he didn't NEED anythin bigger. Asked him how he did it.
His answer was;
"Paddle out beside the Moose while him swimnin (hard ta paddle a canoe on land), stick the muzzle in his ear, pull trigger, tow moose to shore".
But... yea, If the smokeless types can use a .308 or a .22-250 (in some states), ta bring one down then it all boils down to shot placement an yer ability ta be sneaky.
Quote from: forrest on October 19, 2009, 02:09:48 PM
I have a 50cal Flinter first two years I took a doe each bang flops head shots, 3rd year was out with my dad had a 12pt about 280-250 lbs tried, heart, lung ball apparently hit a heavy rib and deflected lost trail, I'm now trying to save for my dream Rifle A 58 Hawken full stock flinter with a 42 in 1 1/4 tapering to 1in with a slow twist. A 58 comes in at 277 grn. but I may go for a 62 insted
When I hunt small game I use small game calibers and smoothbores;
When I go big game hunting I use big game calibers and loads.
For what its worth, I've hunted PRBs out of both the .58cal and the .62cal...and in the case of the .62cal, boith out of smoothbores and a rifled .62cal.
After a few year of alternating them, I saw no performance benefit on whitetails provided by the .62cal over the .58cal, and had better velocity & trajectory out of the .58cal.
As I began trimming back a couple decades accumulation of muzzleloaders this year, and knowing that Whitetails are the largest game I'll ever be shooting I settled on only one big bore for big game...sold the .62 & .58cal Hawken rifles and had an Early Virginia built in .58cal.
PS:
One of the side benefits of having a .58cal...particularly if you like to shoot 50 shot range sessions almost every weekend...is that 9/16" marbles shoot as good as Hornadys at 25 yards, and they only cost .01 cents each.
;)
Quote from: foxriver50 on October 19, 2009, 02:03:18 AM
Mostly wondering if 40. is enough for deer. Its leagle in my state ta use, but is it just as good as a 50. or close.
Id like to build a rifle this winter but couldnt make up my mind ta do a rifle for small game or deer. ahh :P then it came to me.
What you guys think
The .40 is enough for deer at limited range, but it simply cannot match or come close to the .50 in terms of delivering energy downrange farther than 50 yards. For small game and target shooting I think the .40 is a good choice, but for deer size critters I think it will be too limiting, plus you will not be able to hunt them with it outside of your state. You can always hunt small game with a larger caliber, but not vice-versa.
In Oregon .40 is smallest for deer, bear and antelope while .50 is smallest for elk. I wouldnt want to tick off a bear with a peashooter !!
Back on track... me that is
Ran across this page...
<http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/math.html>
and I also found that in each States Rules & Reg.s fer huntin, they will TELL you what you may or mayNOT use.
Examlpe, here in Utah, the deer are Muleys, an we also got Elk, Moose, And some thick hided sheep (don't go there).
so DWR (Dept. of Wildlife Resourses) Proclamation sez;
<http://wildlife.utah.gov/guidebooks/2009_biggame/2009_biggame.pdf>
They specify what is a minimum ball/ conical wt. so by that they are inferring a min. cal. My read...
so I then go to a page like above.
Then I know and you will as well, so you can have some idea of what ya need as opposed to what ya got, what it'll do, and where ta go from there.
hankaye
Depends on weight of the deer, the weight of the projectile and the amount of powder behind the projectile. My daughters have both cleanly killed deer and hogs with our TC Cherokee shooting a .32 maxi ball. They dropped within 15 yards of impact. I have killed several deer, hogs and a few exotic culls with my .40 and a round ball with no problems at all. If you are hunting Mule deer then you will most likely need a larger caliber or shoot a heavier longer projectile. JMHO and experience.
I wouldnt hesitate to put a roundball from a .40 with 70grs 3fg throught the lungs of one of our benchleg Muley/Blacktail cross deer that go typically 110-150 lbs 4 qtrs hanging , no head , hide or hocks. But I would keep distance short,50-60 yrds as the little pill loses giddyup pretty fast hntr
There are alot of good points here, thanks guys, got alot of thinking ta do. Knowing that the 40. produces about the same viscosity as the 41.mag, thats an eye opener.
Wisconsin regs are
smallest leagle rifled muzzleloader is 40.
smallest leagle smoothbore is 50.
allot of head scratchin goin on here.
Fox - knowing the deer up in your area i wouldn't go with anything less than a .45 cal myself... remember i was hunting around Gleason and Rheinlander for my first hunts with my family...
HMMMMMMMM... strpot strpot strpot
Wonder how they might have done all their deer huntin back when...
What size ball were used by all o them Long Hunters? All o them Over the Mountain men and first timers inna new lands?
All those smaller cal. Pennsyltucky Long rifles weren't just fer squirrels n bunny rabbits. Elk used ta roam back East in those days.
I think that Kentucky had their first Elk hunt (heard is large enough to do that now), in or around 2000. Pa. has maintained an Elk heard ( small but cozy group), all along. Others are still growing their Heard size so they can be hunted again. Ohio is sneakin in Bears from West Va., Pa., and N.Y..
Moose are all over New England, well not so much in the Southern tier (Mass. Conn and R.I.).
How did all of those NON Vegans eat? What did they shoot all them critters wiff??? Don't think they had "special Guns fer dis an dat".
Don't rush inna an answer. think on't a bit. Ponder the possibilities.
Then let us know.
I fer one will be anxious ta read what ya post .
hankaye
Jim how long ago was that , when you were still living in Wis.
around here yer lucky ta see a deer older than a year and a half.
I do know what yer saing though.
Quote from: hankaye on October 20, 2009, 06:11:00 AM
Wonder how they might have done all their deer huntin back when...
From everything I've read, game was very plentiful and they did their hunting up real close...
Yea game were more plentiful and alot of it was as big or bigger.
My personal opinion is that our ancestry didn't feel the time crunch
that we do. Most didn't have a 9 ta 5 ta get back to, or soccer to go coach,
huntin season was now, The guide dosen't have ta have me back so he/she can
get the next group out here ta get their critter an so on.
They could take their time, stalk as long as necessary,
get as close as they felt they could and then...
remember, my opinion SHOT PLACEMENT. ya can shoot all day long an not drop a critter
if ya don't hit'em in the right spot.
Most of the commentaries from yesteryear state how accurate the hunters were.
I'll shut-up now
Since we are mostly civil here and can agree to disagree some of you might like to read the following article I wrote a while back. It is about modern cartridges but the common sense applies to traditional as well. JMHO
http://wildedtx.blogspot.com/2009/02/enough-or-too-much-gun.html
The biggest part of the equation is knowing your rifle , knowing your capabilities and shot placement . Leaving out just one part and it turns in to a crap shoot chrrs
Beginning ta sound the same here...
Shot placement
Know yer gun
Practice, practice, practice
Quote from: foxriver50 on October 20, 2009, 09:35:51 AM
Jim how long ago was that , when you were still living in Wis.
around here yer lucky ta see a deer older than a year and a half.
I do know what yer saing though.
I haven't lived in Wisconsin since 1973 when I went into the Military, haven't hunted there since 1984 when I got out... ( loved those free hunting licenses)
allot has changed!!!!
past few years weve had ta shoot does or fawns before we can shoot a buck, I dont mind shooting does at all, though now ya hardly ever see an adult doe anymore.
this is the first year with no "earn a buck" if I think five years.
but for the last ten or more the DNR have realy been pushing the "shoot all the @#$% does" thing. ucrzy ucrzy ucrzy
I understand - It was so bad in Minnesota in 95 that we had does coming into the state park campground and eating spaghetti out of the pot while 18 boy scouts looked on in amazement... wish i still had the pictures of that poor ol gal she was starving.....
If i remember correctly, Up in your area, Michigan, Wisconson & Minnisota wasn't there an outbreak of "turning" illness in the deer herds. Mich. was issueing doe tags to hunters each time they checked one in. At least 1 per week. That was in the early ta mid 90's. Not sure, but thought I read or heard that it was spread across Northern tier.
my 2 cents worth.
hankaye
Quote from: Wild Ed on October 20, 2009, 05:05:28 PM
Since we are mostly civil here and can agree to disagree some of you might like to read the following article I wrote a while back. It is about modern cartridges but the common sense applies to traditional as well. JMHO
http://wildedtx.blogspot.com/2009/02/enough-or-too-much-gun.html
You're correct; it's a no-brainer. I've killed deer DRT with my .22 Hornet (back when I used cartridge guns). I've also had to track a couple that were randomly hit with a 30/06. Though I've killed more deer with a .50 prb, my favorite is a .45 I own. Since it is seldom a shot is offered in the woods (for me) beyond about 40 yards or so, I do aim (pun intended) to use my .40 during the regular rifle season this year. I've settled on 60 grains of 3f as my deer load. That is a good 1900 +/- load. 70 grains! I'm not sure my 38" barrel would burn all that powder efficiently. In a barrel that does, it must be a hell-raiser.
40 grains of FFFg will get you 2000 FPS. 60 grains is screaming. hntr
I never heard of that illness.
The farther north ya go --the bigger the deer. I would not use a .40 for deer myself, but will use a .45 or larger. My current hunters are .50's and they do work great for taking deer. As for the deer here in Mn. starving back in 95..... I remember that all too well. The wintes here can be brutal to all animals and this year is shaping up to be another bad one. Our temps are about 20 degrees below average for this time of year and the other signs are all saying it will be a nasty one. (look at the mountain ash trees berries--theres lots of em this year--more than average)
Voy
What is the situation with Chronic Wasting disease up there? i haven't heard to much about it since i moved to Oklahoma
Thanky JJ; Chronic wasting that's what I ment when I posted eariler an said 'turning' knew it had a 'ing' to it somwheres. Turning is sumtin rabbits can get . there head dipps ta on side an they just go round n round in one direction.
Sorry if I confused anyone slap there I did it fer ya.
Never heard that rabbits get it.
Five years ago "?" the dnr found a deer in the souther part pf tha stat that had CWD. Sice then the dnr has spent more $ in the first three years on CWD than any other state has spent on it total.(that I know of) With the same resalts.
NP always glad ta be able ta straighten out your goofs.... bunkr
New Castle Disease does the same thing to Birds.....chickens, pigeons, crows etc.....I guess every species has it brain malfunctions.
Yep and I have my own...he-he-he-he-he hi: dntn chrrs fncg hntr chrrs chrrs
we'd have never guessed ROFL
Quote from: Wild Ed on October 22, 2009, 04:19:33 PM
40 grains of FFFg will get you 2000 FPS. 60 grains is screaming. hntr
Hmmm...I'll have to get out my chrony and see what's going on in my rifle. I was calling 40 grains my squirrel load! :o :o :o
Not much CWD up here in Mn. Do have a couple spots with bovine TB though. Not a big problem yet--- but it is there and they are givin out licenses for those areas like candy on Halloween if ya wanna hunt there. They say it isnt able to be caught by people as long as the meat is fully cooked.
Voy
Quote from: voyageur1688 on October 24, 2009, 02:52:27 AM
"...They say it isnt able to be caught by people as long as the meat is fully cooked..."
;D
While I'm sure our country's commercial meat butchering / handling / delivery process is probably not always 100% perfect...still, IMO, a shrink wrapped black angus T-bone from a grocery store is far and away the best odds of not ending up with any problem meat...Wife and I quit eating dead animals dragged out of the woods years ago because of all the unknowns...
;)
Hmmm time for a new thread..... wildlife diseases you have known?... I personally feel that most of these diseases have been around forever, it just modern science has now developed to a point where we can identify them.... If it don't eat me first - I'll try it...
You're probably right...the occasional thread does morph now and then ;D...sorry for my part
LOL I think we'll let this one run it's course... Now if someone wants to start a new thread, I'm all for it... strpot
The one thing about the ORIGINAL topic that it appears that everyone agreed with is
SHOT PLACEMENT is most important
KNOW YER FIREARM
PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE
Now hows 'b we all follow Hanshi over ta his NEW TOPIC chrrs chrrs chrrs
New post or not, I will continue to eat wild game as I still consider it to be safer than anything I buy at the store. At least the wild critters aint chock full of steroids and what not.
Voy
Quote from: hankaye on October 19, 2009, 05:29:45 PM
An OLD injun friend of ma Great Gdaddy (back up in Maine), said he never used nuttin biggern a .22 fer MOOSE. Asked him (I were only 9 at the time), why he didn't use sometin bigger. Said he didn't NEED anythin bigger. Asked him how he did it.
His answer was;
"Paddle out beside the Moose while him swimnin (hard ta paddle a canoe on land), stick the muzzle in his ear, pull trigger, tow moose to shore".
By yimnie that be shot placement!
Knew a few up here that did that for deerhunting. Its amazing how well a deer that hasnt been cut open will float.
Voy
Yep, jest keep his head above water an hope it don't fart... hdslp
Why is it some folks want to hunt with the smallest caliber the law allows? The little .40 is fine up to anything weighing in at 40 lbs. Some one compared a 95 grn .40 RB to a .41 mag 220 grn flat nose. Now that is a real streatch. If you have every really hunted you know better. Its better to use a .62 on a mouse. Ole Tom hates to see wounded game.
Well, they both make a .40 (+ or -) caliber hole, so I suppose they are about equal on that level. I'd have to check but muzzle energy may be similar, too. Now, I've never killed a deer with a .40 but have killed them with a .41mag revolver using both cast and jacketed bullets. The .41, depending on bullet type, may have the edge in penetration or it would certainly seem so. I normally use a .45 prb on deer and can only recall one that didn't penetrate through and through; it was flattened under the off side skin. So, equal? I don't know. Would I hunt deer with a .40? Without a doubt if legal. I really like my flint .40 rifle and the gun, not the caliber, is the reason I say this.
I don't want to start an internet war or something but if you hit a deer in the vitals it doesn't take a lot to kill them. More moose have been shot with a .30-30 around here than probably anything else. Given a choice I would use my .54 of course. As far as a .22 rimfire goes I had always heard the old wives tale of shooting them in the eye with a .22 to kill them.
I had a deer head from a Whitetail buck I had shot, with a .308, and was going to cut the antlers off and thought I would try the .22 for penetration to see if it was true. The .22 would not penetrate the eye socket. [hmm]
The .40 muzzleloader if close and a heart/lung shot should drop a deer no problem. That being said I believe bigger is better when muzzleloader hunting.
what kind did you use ,short ,long ,or long rifle ? dont know about the eyesocket thing ,but I do know my father shot one at better than 100 yards with a .22 ,and dropped it ! depending on skull thickness a .22 may or may not penetrate , angle the bullet strikes can have an effect on it also ! personally ,I prefer .45 or larger for deer when shooting soot belchers !
It was regular long rifle .22. What I noticed the skull is heavy right where the antlers grow out, probably to support them when the bucks are fighting. The skull is much thinner back from the eye sockets/brow portion. I don't know if a doe would be the same, kinda doubt it. It would be inhumane to hunt big game with a .22 rimfire unless it was your only choice ie. after an airplane crash out in the wilderness or something. I have seen people butchering steers shoot them right between the eyes and they drop...but I suspect sometimes they are only stunned and die once the butchering starts. Gruesome subject (susp)
Thats a true fact. Shooting big game with a .22 is a terrible thing. Ole Tom rode up on a Bull Moose in a patch of dog hair Aspen. The bull could not move, he was slowly dying. I was able to place a .44 mag. slug behind his ear. We field dressed the critter and found a .22 Mag slug under his hide. The little slug had went thru the lungs. The old fellow was waiting to die as his lungs filled with blood. Ole Tom would have hanged the SOB with that Damn .22 if he could have found him. hntr
Quote from: Tom Threepersons on June 05, 2010, 12:53:06 PM
Thats a true fact. Shooting big game with a .22 is a terrible thing. Ole Tom rode up on a Bull Moose in a patch of dog . The bull could not move, he was slowly dying. I was able to place a .44 mag. slug behind his ear. We field dressed the critter and found a .22 Mag slug under his hide. The little slug had went thru the lungs. The old fellow was waiting to die as his lungs filled with blood. Ole Tom would have hanged the SOB with that Damn .22 if he could have found him. hntr
Ole Tom must be quite a man. I wouldn't get close to a bull moose much less try to ride one. ROFL
Quote from: voyageur1688 on October 24, 2009, 02:52:27 AM
Not much CWD up here in Mn. Do have a couple spots with bovine TB though. Not a big problem yet--- but it is there and they are givin out licenses for those areas like candy on Halloween if ya wanna hunt there. They say it isnt able to be caught by people as long as the meat is fully cooked.
Voy
Actually the disease is caused by a "prion" which resides in nerve tissue (brain, spinal cord). It's not alive so cooking has no affect on it and does not make the infected meat safe to eat. As long as you're careful to stay away from the nerve tissue, there is little chance of contracting the disease.
Quote from: voyageur1688 on October 22, 2009, 11:05:47 PM
The farther north ya go --the bigger the deer. I would not use a .40 for deer myself, but will use a .45 or larger. My current hunters are .50's and they do work great for taking deer. As for the deer here in Mn. starving back in 95..... I remember that all too well. The wintes here can be brutal to all animals and this year is shaping up to be another bad one. Our temps are about 20 degrees below average for this time of year and the other signs are all saying it will be a nasty one. (look at the mountain ash trees berries--theres lots of em this year--more than average)
Voy
The farther south you go the bigger the lies. I've always lived in the south and can tell you that fishermen have nothing on deer hunters when it comes to telling lies. ROFL
Now Texans never lie............ We may expand on the truth just a bit, but never lie!
I'm all for hunting with whatever is legal and you are comfortable with. Having said that, I believe that this forum is for discussions about traditional muzzleloader topics and not the abilities of CF cartridges or the ethics of those who hunt with them, no mater what caliber.
Just my .02, your mileage may vary.
I don't lie; never have. I did lie once just to see what it felt like. blah
You're absolutely right William. Thanks for reminding us.
Quote from: hanshi on June 05, 2010, 07:21:23 PM
I don't lie; never have. I did lie once just to see what it felt like. blah
so ! how`d it feel ? ROFL
Quote from: hanshi on June 05, 2010, 04:35:24 PM
Quote from: voyageur1688 on October 22, 2009, 11:05:47 PM
The farther north ya go --the bigger the deer. I would not use a .40 for deer myself, but will use a .45 or larger. My current hunters are .50's and they do work great for taking deer. As for the deer here in Mn. starving back in 95..... I remember that all too well. The wintes here can be brutal to all animals and this year is shaping up to be another bad one. Our temps are about 20 degrees below average for this time of year and the other signs are all saying it will be a nasty one. (look at the mountain ash trees berries--theres lots of em this year--more than average)
Voy
The farther south you go the bigger the lies. I've always lived in the south and can tell you that fishermen have nothing on deer hunters when it comes to telling lies. ROFL
I worked down in Wyoming a while back and the deer ther were just as big as the deer here in Alberta. The racks were generaly smaller down south but who eats antlers?
Go south to say Alabama , Georgia, or a state in that area and look at the size of the deer. They be a bit smaller than those from Wyoming, Illinois, Ohio, etc. As for the rifle size, I just dont feel confident enough with a .40
Voy
Average hill country deer in Texas doe weighs in about 85 pounds, bucks weigh in about 110 lbs or so. Woulodnt hesitate to take anyofem with a well placed shot with a 32 or better. Note the words "Well Placed Shot".
Quote from: beowulf on June 06, 2010, 01:15:41 AM
Quote from: hanshi on June 05, 2010, 07:21:23 PM
I don't lie; never have. I did lie once just to see what it felt like. blah
so ! how`d it feel ? ROFL
It felt......it felt.....well, exhilarating! :applause:
best not make a habit of it , I`ve heard it can lead to a life in politics ! ROFL ROFL ROFL
EGADS!!!!!! So thats what got my great great great uncle on the wrong path. He ended up being a senator in New York. Entire family have always been ashamed of him for that. Why couldnt he have become something a bit more respectable like a horse thief or some other career.
As for deer weighing 85-110 lbs-- thats a yearling up here. Sounds to me like yall souther boys gotsta come check out some of these Yankee deer.
Voy
Quote from: beowulf on June 21, 2010, 06:46:37 PM
best not make a habit of it , I`ve heard it can lead to a life in politics ! ROFL ROFL ROFL
Or Law ROFL or journalism ROFL (sorry- couldn't hep meself)
85lbs ...wow...
biggest deer Ive go was a 210lbs doe...dresed do you Texans way yer deer dresed?
Foxriver, Yes I weigh my deer after field dressing. My field dressing is "clean out everything from chin to tail". The largest Texas buck I've killed field dressed 130 pounds.
I've been hunting critters here in Texas for most of my 73 years. Knowing my rifle, the game I'm hunting, and my patience at waiting for just the right shot. I wouldn't be afraid to take on deer, or hogs with my .40 caliber. And it's legal here in Texas.
just had to ask. when I used to wach hunting shows ,till I noticed I was getting sucked in to "the got to have it to be a hunter" way of thinking, I never saw a dressed animal. I figuerd it was for the camra.
Nope that was for the public... we don't want to show little Johnny and Susie all the gore of field dressing and work that goes into the safe preparation of wild game. Might traumatize them and then the network or the producers would be sued for all those Shrink and counseling session bills... or show a little blood and set some maniac off on a shooting spree....
PIETA wants to ban all these shows, but shore does not mind those "Wale Wars" type shows showing us being mean to other humans who are not living hand in hand with our brother animals....
Now back to topic -
A while back someone who is no longer here did post a valid point - Our forefathers had usually one rifle/musket to hunt and protect themselves and their family with so the caliber they used was a constant. It therefore follows that -
1. They did not shoot different species based on the caliber or the firearm they carried (ie no grizzly bear with a .32)
or
2. The were extremely familiar with this tool(the firearm), knew the properties of the animal, and had the patience to do the job right the first time...
I personally think that number 2 is the answer but might be wrong as nature would have weeded out the ones who chose option number 1...
When I was a young kid of about 8 or 9 my Grandpa let me kill the hog he had been fattening up to butcher. The hog was in a small pen. My Grandpa put his finger on the spot he wanted me to hit with the rifle. After he stepped out of the little pen he said "go ahead". At the shot the hog simple fell over and kicked a few times as my grandfather found the jugular vein with his knife. The rifle I was using? It was my grandpa's single shot .22 rimfire. I think the ammo was a .22 Long.
You know if a small bullet like that will do the job, a roundball of twice the size and weight will do the job just as well. When well placed.
I agree no. 2 right answer,if they did't they'd be mighty hungry or worse ;D
Quote from: foxriver50 on June 26, 2010, 12:36:57 AM
85lbs ...wow...
biggest deer Ive go was a 210lbs doe...dresed do you Texans way yer deer dresed?
Some times, mostly we process them and eat them. Our whitetail, like most southern subspecie of whitetail, are not as large as their northern kin as they dont need the body mass to fight colder winters. However since we have near 4 million of them pesky fender bustin pain in the neck critters, we get to shoot more of them.
I have shot 32, 40, 45, 50, and 54 caliber smoke poles and find the 40's to be accurate to a fault. My neighbors wife competes over in North Carolina with a 40 and am glad she does not shoot at me. It is shot placement regardless that gets it done and a 40 leaves a lot more rabbit when you find nothing else. Sneak up close and don't miss. The head shot from a canoe trick mentioned by our friend is not legal in Alabama except to shoot snakes. You will love shooting the forty and from a stand a conical will get it done, if you do your part.
Quote from: Osceola Bill on February 05, 2011, 03:23:58 AM
You will love shooting the forty and from a stand a conical will get it done, if you do your part.
Always thought it would make a .40cal a lot more attractive if there was a commercially available .40cal conical readily available.
I used T/C's .45cal/255grn Maxi-"Hunter" for a couple of years long ago...essentially twice the weight of the .440"/128grn ball...extremely accurate and devastating on deer out of their 1:48" twist barrels.
A .40cal conical about twice the weight of it's .395"/92grn ball...ie: 180grns would make the .40cal much more versatile...with a good OP wad the accuracy should be pretty good even in a deep groove rifle with that 1:48" twist...
don't see anything wrong with a 40 cal. if you are good with it and the distance is not past say 75 yards. I would prefer a 50 cal. myself just because of the ball weight and longer distance I could put a deer down.
I have shot 3 deer with a .40 RB flintlock w 75 gr FFg. One the buck was slightly quartering to me. Did not penetrate the rib cage but broke a couple of ribs and lodged in the hind quarter. I know, but I was shooting a RH flinter left handed trying to get into the chest cavity thru the neck hole. Trailed him 6 hours and got a broadside shot at just under 40 yds. Still went about 125 yards w heart lung placement. Ball did not exit.
Other 2 were spine/neck shots and they dropped in their tracks. Rested and shooting rt handed.
Now that I have larger bore flintlocks I will not use the .40 on deer again, even these great dane sized deer in Central Texas. Soooo my answer is that a .40 will do it if that is all you have. Don't expect an exit wound to aid in trailing. If building a gun primarily for deer, I would choose a .50.
TC
My preference for deer is a .45 or a .50 prb. Both have proven quick and deadly on more than a few, for me. I've never killed a deer with a .40 prb but wouldn't hesitate to do so. Depending on the outcome I might or might not continue using it. Some have reported killing lots of deer with the .40 prb and even getting full penetration. Still, I can't help but think of the .40 as being marginal for that use.
Quote from: Hanshi on June 21, 2010, 04:02:39 AM
Quote from: beowulf on June 06, 2010, 01:15:41 AM
Quote from: hanshi on June 05, 2010, 07:21:23 PM
I don't lie; never have. I did lie once just to see what it felt like. blah
so ! how`d it feel ? ROFL
It felt......it felt.....well, exhilarating! :applause:
Kinda made me feel like voting democrate,came to my senses very fast though!
Both of my daughters killed their first deer with a muzzleloader when they were seven. One with a little Traditions halfstock in .36 and one with a TC Cherokee in .32. Both were clean kills taken from less than thirty yards away in a blind. I did load the .32 with a maxiball. Neither doe dropped in her tracks, but both fell in sight. Sometimes I think we overgun to compensate for bullet placement and range. JMHO hntr
Here is a link to an article I wrote on picking a caliber. It concerns modern rifles but you might enjoy it. ET
http://wildedtx.blogspot.com/2011/10/picking-proper-caliber-for-your-game.html
I've been out with the .40 during deer season but no shots came my way. :'(
My experience with the .40 as a deer rifle was not good.
Deer #1 was a mule deer doe and it took 3 shots to finish her off. The first shot was a little too far back and did not do the job. Shot #2 was with 70 gr at 15 yds and stopped on the shoulder blade without penetrating any further. Shot #3 was a head shot and finished the job.
Deer #2 was a yearling doe and I shot her high but stopped her because I hit the spine and finished her with another head shot.
I have not used the .40 on deer since that time.