this was the subject of a post the sister site and I thought it was of enough importance to bring it to this campfire....
The person who posted was feeling overwhelmed with all the choices once they had the bug.... things like, what do I do next, how can I decide which path to take, etc. The post itself was:
Does everyone feel like jumpin in with both feet when they catch the fever for all this, out of the fry pan into the fire. I look at all the post and want it all now but have no clue and little funds to do that right now...............I can't wait to start having fun.
here is my answer:
I know I did and with the help of some now very dear friends I was cautioned to go slow and take my time... one thing at a time I heard those words a lot, when I started... Now 6 months later I see the wisdom of what they said...
I found my persona and studied what I wanted to do with this character, and though some combination of good luck in the give away's, and asking questions which allowed some members to offer me trades/sales for items from my time period, have almost all I need to portray my Gt. Gt. Gt. Gt. Grandfather...
This is not only a hobby it becomes a way of life we set for ourselves.. There is way to much speculation and not enough hard fact written to be able to just copy what we want... a lot of it is investigation and then attempting to duplicate items or experiences which will point us in the direction of getting it just right.... things like oh, not carrying my .54 hawkins rifle because percussion caps had not been invented yet, or wearing a colonial waistcoat and knee britches in 1800-1820 Wisconsin area because it wasn't in fashion at that time or place....
Many things are not mentioned in the chronicles of old because they were thought to be commonplace or "taboo"... like we don't have any real historical data on wether the mountain men used undergarments etc... so we have to decide what would have been available and then adapt it for that use... or decide to forgo it altogether...
For me this is not so much a hobby anymore. I have the bug and am getting into what they call living archeology - trying to do things they way they would have been done back then and without the aid of modern items..... Baker said in one of his books something to the effect of: when did going out into the woods become roughing it? leaving all the inventions of the modern world behind ?
I like the challenge this presents and will continue to refine my character as long as I need to... one step at a time... with the help of various books and literature and the fine folks on this and other sites who will answer my questions and give me advice gained from their own experiences...
Now I'd like you to share your own thoughts to help this person and all the others who will be in the same predicament in the future...!
It is very addicting and easy to go over board when first getting into the game. thankfully,the group of folks I started with were very knowledgeable and patient with my enthusiasm. do go slow and don't focus so much on having a perfect persona as have good period gear. I rarely see folks at shoots who are 100% correct in their time period(if they have one), but all have really good gear. The fine points can be refined as you go along. If you cant afford the best,try to fashion it yourself,may not be perfect,but you made it and it's yours. Remember,the stuff in museums were the top drawer stuff that was used infrequently(for the most part) and a lot of stuff was homemade and of average quality.
There are many levels of authenticity from the K-Mart types to the John Curry and Mark Bakers(both excellent authors). We all started somewhere and that was the beginning. Observe and ask questions,most of us can't shut up once we start talking! hdslp
I agree with Pathfinder.
Voy
I keep it simple as I can;
Fotshotkee (Long Shirt) Two different ones, depending on the weather.
1 inside shirt, again, 2 different ones depending on the weather
Leggins and clot or full buckskin pants
head cloth or turban
Moccasins
rifle, knife,horn, and bag
Fits the persona of a Mikasuki warrior during all three seminole wars.
Been my observation that people can drive themselves insane over this,
I go slow not only cause I want to but have to, have found that the more I read and ask gives me much more pleasure and understanding,plus the fact of doing it all pretty much myself is gratifying to say the least.
True that. We have to walk before we can run.
couch Thats why I am taking my time this time. Yes I got into Muzzel loading a while back and all that goes with it tryed doing it all at once.
After many years, I'm going to take my time and study, and plan then just do as much as I can myself.
I was the one that posted those particular statements. My reason was 1 because I was overwhelmed and I needed a starting point, the basics and where to go and what I would need on a very very limited budget......I am starting a journal about it all, and reading up on the topic. I want to be able to go to a rondy and not get kicked out cause I don't fit in. I am a hands on kinda person and I think a rondy is gonna be my best bet for some of the stuff. Pictures and readin are all fine and good and I do get lots of ideas but I think if I sit face to face and pick at someones brain about things I will not feel so out of my eliment or overwhelmed.
Y'all have been very very helpful and encouragin in this here endevour and I do appreciate it. So these are the 7 things I will be doing to get things right.
1. go slow
2. ask questions
3. do it yourself
4. read and study
5. ask questions
6. journal the info you gather
7. ask questions
And again I would like to thank everyone on the forum sites for all the knowledge they have imparted to me and for all that I will learn from here on out. After all you are never to old to keep learning
Honovi
One thing I would suggest is that you DO NOT take any one persons,
idea of historical correctness as being the gospel. Take what you are told
and check it against documentation and artist paintings of the time. Even thenyou are going to find some things that will be different.
Absolute historical correctness [if that is what you want ] is not imposable, but you will find it is going to take some time and work.
Most of the folks at 90% of the rendezvous you will go to will not claim
to be absolutely historically correct but close, as new information keeps
being discovered
I claim to be an amateur historian but with the new information that has
come to light I have given up trying to stay absolutely historically correct.
I am not trying to be a wet blanket, just letting you know about the project
you are starting, and that I will help you in any way I can.
The Old Salt
Being 100% historically accurate is not only difficult but is not as fun as having some free space to work with by basing your persona on a real person, but allowing yourself the freedom to choose different things for that character. If you are locked into being that person accurately you have no choice on how to act or react to a given situation. My persona is based on my 7x great grandfather, but has let me have freedom to adapt it to my tastes and needs at the time.
The main thing is to have fun with it while staying somewhat accurate, and yet ,be yourself--or in some cases, be your alter ego.
Voy
I want to thank you for posting the original post. It gave me food for thought and I thought it was important enough to bring to this site... I hope you approve of my actions for the reasons stated as I am sure you are not the only one who feels / felt that way. i know I did when I started...
Jim
Quote from: voyageur1688 on October 11, 2009, 02:07:58 AM
Being 100% historically accurate is not only difficult but is not as fun as having some free space to work with by basing your persona on a real person,
If you are basing your historical image on a real person shouldn't you be as historically accurate as possible.
For me even the smallest imperfections in my kit make me cringe and will not attend an event unless I am able to correct deficiency.
The biggest deficiency in my impression is the lack of a ridding horse and a pack animal. Some times you have to make concessions.Mostly because I can not afford to board and feed a horse right now. Someday.
To each his own
I have found that most reenactments are a learning -teaching experience. Therefore we all have a duty to inform ourselves about what time period we are portraying or are attempting to portray so when others ask questions about clothing, guns shelters etc. we can inform them what is correct ,what is acceptable ,and what we are doing with what we have. This means that all reenactors should strive for education first then use that knowledge to equip. ourselves and inform others as to what is right, or how to make something closer to the subject at hand. True we all have to start somewhere and I come from very humble beginnings myself. But I have also have seen alot of people turned off or clear away because others are not openminded enough to realize that all do not have the education nor budget to start at the top, and this is very sad to me, because like I said we all should welcome the greenhorns and flatlanders into the realm of what we do and why we do it. My 2 cents
thmbsup
Russ,
There is a difference between being 100% accurate and being real here. If you are portraying someone and have been for say 5 years, then after all that time you discover this person just loved to eat deer brains or some such thing that you would find totally repulsive, would you then either start eating that and like it ? Would you switch your persona because of it? Or would you just let that bit go and continue on with that charactor without making that change to it?
Also, each event may have something happen that the real person had not encountered or no record of their reaction to it exists.
Do you see what I mean here? You should at least leave yourself some wiggle room in your persona. Just because you are portraying that person, does not mean you have to be that person in every detail.
Voy
Quotethen after all that time you discover this person just loved to eat deer brains or some such
MMMMM Deer brains.
As far as portraying one particular individual is concerned. The biggest concern I have are the outward physical appearance being correct down to the smallest detail. And the mannerisms and actions are the same as those portrayed.
I don't expect anyone to eat brains or do anything that is potentially dangerous to them selves or others. But what I do expect is to go to an event and not have to put on blinders to have to not see all the inaccuracies that I am surrounded by. Granted many people don't have the ( pick a reason here) time/money/knowledge that others do. But when I go to an event and I see the same people time after time doing the same thing year after year and not improving even though they know better is what bugs me. If you know better and can fix a problem than do it.
Sorry to get of subject here but this is something that gets to me. And another thing that bugs me is enamel/speckle wear. it has become accepted in this hobby for what ever reason and I hate to see it. Tin is where it at for cooking and eating utensils.
OK enough of that
When WAS the first enamelware made? What year did it first make its appearance?
Voy
I found one article which said that enamel ware has been around since the early 19th century which did not give a specific date but did give a patent date for granite ware which was 1874. But this technology has been around for a long time and the principal of enamel coating is bacically like glass smelting which has been around for centuries!! (The Chinese have done porcelain coatings on stuff for centuries) I will try to do some more research on this subject. More info: Birmingham, England was the primary center for enamel in the 18th century. The most prominent Birmingham enameler was, Matthew Boulton ,English engineer, 1728-1809. He was one of ,or the leading manufacturer of enameled products. His firms' name was Boulton and Fothergill. Hope this info is satisfactory.
So where does this leave us? Tinware was probably more available than enamel ware, but isn't there a health concern with tinware? Just asking as I want to learn...
Still new to all of this and my first impressions are that there are basiclly 2 main type of people that ya run inta.
1. Stiff, picky, EVERYthing has ta be absolutly correct (God like), persons that have no fun. :-&
Unless tut-tuting about everyone else is fun. :qz:
2. Those of us that realize that our hobby/lifestyle, is supposed ta be fun, enjoyable, mistake ridden,
a place where we can exchange ideas, knowledge, and laughter chrrs chrrs
I vote fer 2
I`ll second that vote ! it`s a good idea to be as historically accurate as possible , but dont become obsessed with it ! what happens when you do it exactly as we always thought it was done , and someone discovers a journal or some such that proves the whole thing to be wrong ? do you beat yourself up for your mistake ? no ! you adapt and change ! after all this hobby is a learning experience , and if you stick to it , a lifetime learning experience ! besides if you push yourself to hard , you arent having fun anymore , you are working ! and what fun is that ROFL
I vote for 2 also. Our rondy up here allows more leniency on many issues, but do have some limitations. We will not allow, modern clothing such as jeans, tenners, etc. We do not allow plastic, aluminum, shiny stainless steal and the such. But unlike alot of the rondies here in Mn., We do allow tipi's, lean-pees, pyramid tents, modern eye ware, and the like. We know that not everyone has the budget or the skill to have all correct items and that if we dont work with them, the interest in our hobby will die away as the purists will make it so miserable on the newcomers they will just give up.
Voy
My Dad had a saying that I have applied to a lot of things that I do in life.
When your pleasure becomes misery it is time to do something else.
When the thread counting nazis start giving a new person heck
because they are not absolutely correct the new guy is going to do something else because they are no having any fun,
#2 Ditto what Voy and Old Salt Said!!!!!!
Interesting you said that Harry, Bulldog lady posted something similar in the thread about "do we continue" the "what's wrong with this picture" thread.
i have to agree - If this gets to the point where I have to worry about being 100% period correct I'll give up - just not worth the time and aggravation. But until they take over I am in 150% ( Until Bulldog lady says slow down!)
ROFL
Our vous for this year was canceled but is slated for next year, so if any of ya want to come up for a relaxed fun filled weekend, let me know. We are always the first full weekend of Oct. and have only had 2 times when we had bad weather since we started in 03. We try to provide ALL wood, water and food for participants and the entry fee for participants is refunded after your attendance of the event. Looking at a new location for next year so we can have the event without all the red tape and headaches from the feds which is where the problem this year came from.
Voy
Quote from: hankaye on October 16, 2009, 06:36:38 PM
1. Stiff, picky, EVERYthing has ta be absolutly correct (God like), persons that have no fun. :-&
Unless tut-tuting about everyone else is fun. :qz:
I vote fer 2
The every thing has to be correct guy. That is me... But that is what makes it fun for me. Thwe challenge of being correct as possible.
QuoteWhen the thread counting nazis start giving a new person heck
First off ,people should not compare a political group of people bent on the extermination of a group of people to those that strive to be historicly accurate. It demeans what the Jews had to endure.
Second. I dont give the new guy grief because we all had to start somewhere. Waht I will do is help to educate them and help them do research.
QuoteWhen WAS the first enamelware made? What year did it first make its appearance?
This is reply to a similar question on a Civil War Board.
QuoteIs the speckleware cookery seen at reenactments authentic?
Comments by Brent Forney and Kevin O'Beirne
The very first issue of "The Watchdog" has a small article on enamelware. I think you can still purchase back copies of it. Here is a quote from that article:
"As for military usage, no enamelware cups or plates with Civil War military associations are known in reputable museum collections, and none are known by the author to have been excavated and properly documented from any archaeological site from the Civil War."
Brent Forney
The following is Kevin O'Beirne's contribution to the subject:
Quote:
From "The Columbia Rifles Research Compendium", in the article entitled, "THE CAMPAIGNER'S INSTRUMENTS OF CULINARY ART: Mess Furniture of the Federal Civil War Soldier":
Despite its widespread use by reenactors, porcelain enamelware, also known as speckle ware, splatter ware, glazed ware, granite ware, granite steel ware, and agate ware is entirely incorrect for both military and civilian impressions of the Civil War era.
What exactly is enamelware?
"Porcelain enamelling is the process of fusing a thin layer of glass to a metal object to prevent corrosion and enhance its beauty. The base item is low carbon sheet iron formed in the shape of a utensil...Handles, spouts, and ears are welded or riveted in place. The base item is cleaned by pickling [it] in acid. A coating mixture of ground glass, clay, and water is applied and dried. The ware is then fired in a furnace." [New Encyclopedia Britannica, 1991, cited in Bledsoe, Sharon, "Porcelain Enamelware: Should We Use It?" published in "Camp Chase Gazette"]
Types of enamelware include cups, plates, pots, pans, flatware, and other cooking gear. The most common enamelware colors seen at reenactments are gray and bright blue.
Enamelling was first patented in England in 1779, and for more than ninety years afterward inventors in both England and the United States worked to refine the process, which remained more-or-less experimental until the 1870s. Enamelware was first advertised for sale in the United States in 1874, but was not popularly introduced to the public until the Philadelphia Centennial Exposition in 1876—a full eleven years after the conclusion of the Civil War. Only in the 1880s was the process of enamelling further refined to lend bright colors, such as blue, red, and speckling, to cookware. Enamelware quickly caught on and remained extremely popular well into the Twentieth Century. Unfortunately, it is also quite popular with Civil War reenactors of the Twenty-first Century. [sources: Bledsoe, Sharon, "Porcelain Enamelware: Should We Use It?"; Hughes, Nicky, "And While We're on the Subject of Dinnerware..." published in "The Watchdog"]
Because its widespread manufacture and use postdates the Civil War, enamelware is entirely unsuitable for a Civil War impression. One reference concludes, "Excavation of military sites and military collections show no evidence of Porcelain enamelware being used by the military of either army [in the Civil War]." [source: Bledsoe, Sharon, "Porcelain Enamelware: Should We Use It?"]
Kevin O'Beirne>>
columbiarifles@aol.com >>
The Columbia Rifles >>
Columbia Rifles
It would seem to me that if it is not correct for CW it is not correct for 1800 to 1840. There is more good info out there on enamael ware. You just have to look for it.
QuoteTinware was probably more available than enamel ware, but isn't there a health concern with tinware? Just asking as I want to learn...
There is absolutley no health concerns with tin ware as long as lead free solder is used. That means stay away from imported tin ware. There are lots of goos American makers of tin ware out there. I will provide some links to them
http://www.ottertin.com/
http://www.backwoodstin.com/
http://www.cg-tinsmith.com/
Just few that I have dealt with before.
There are several more out there. Just look around.
Quote from: russ on October 12, 2009, 03:52:57 PM
Quote from: voyageur1688 on October 11, 2009, 02:07:58 AM
Being 100% historically accurate is not only difficult but is not as fun as having some free space to work with by basing your persona on a real person,
If you are basing your historical image on a real person shouldn't you be as historically accurate as possible.
For me even the smallest imperfections in my kit make me cringe and will not attend an event unless I am able to correct deficiency.
The biggest deficiency in my impression is the lack of a ridding horse and a pack animal. Some times you have to make concessions.Mostly because I can not afford to board and feed a horse right now. Someday.
To each his own
I believe you stated the concensus of opinion as far as the majority is concerned at the bottom of your quoted post.
As far as the enamel ware goes; would it be possible that some traveler
may have brought some from England at the turn of the century?
So, why don't we all step back and ponder this awhile...
QuoteAs far as the enamel ware goes; would it be possible that some traveler may have brought some from England at the turn of the century?
It is possible but unlikley.
It seems that something of that nature would be cost prohibitive for the common man and also a status symbol for some one of means. Not to say it never happened, but unlikley.
If this scenerio was infact played out sometime in history it would seem that the stated product would be closer to the eastern frontier and in the far west.
When it comes to history never say never.
Things are starting (already gotten to that point), to a bit snippy here. Think it best if we move on. After all we ALL want to have fun.
Some of us prefer to be Precise in the way we do that and won't try to make mud pies unless the mud has exactly, so much moisture content, xx% clay, zx% sand, and xz % other matter. :qz:
Others would like to say screw-it! This 'll work for now an go out and make mud pies. So what if the dirt ain't wet we can spit on it! blah
Overall quality of fun Balances out for all concerned. chrrs chrrs
We are ALL here for information. Some are less picky then others. That is something that ALL of us should remember
As for enamelware, If it's accepted where ya get together OK, chrrs if not Time fer a plan 'B' slap. What ...no plan 'B' better get one thmbsup
Now before anyones feelins is hurt, bumped, bruised, or feels threatened... fncg
SHALL WE ALL MOVE ALONG LIKE ADULTS.
Befor this gets locked or hidden away in a dark, damp, musty archive somewhere
yer humble servent
hankaye
Striving to be as historically accurate as possible is great fun. But its just that fun. Lota times people act like they are the only ones that know anything about everything and only their things are accurate. It becomes rather boring when so called "Experts" begin picking some one apart when their own regalia is absolute nonsense. For example I was once told that no shirt was ever dyed using anything but red or blue, or checked, black and white. "as all portraits show that ONLY white linens were worn....." I'm callin Bull SNOT! Then, as in now, people did not sit for a formal portrait wearing their work clothing and would only wear their finest clothing for such an expensive venture. Lewis Wetzel wore clothing "Matching the forest floor", how ever when such trinkets of fact are pointed out to the HC enforcers they want volumes of proof right there and right then. I have yet to start carrying my library around on my pack horse simply to satisfy borish know it alls.
Which is why I pretty much stick with my Mikasuki roots, no frills, easy enough to stay with in the relm of sanity and keeps my purse strings from becoming frayed.
Hope ya never come ta wake me-up lookin like that. The river of poo would drown us all. :-& :qz:
Ya ever go to Dolphins games like tat you'd fit right in thmbsup
HEHEHEHEEE!!!!!!!!!
Heck ya! I is from Ochopee, Florida and used to go to the Dolphins games with my father before he passed years ago. Went for a short time to FSU! Go Seminoles!
Yep, GO SEMI_HOLES strpot Florida land of the 1/2 a**ed Injuns thmbsup
Hey! I'm about half Seminole! Watch it bub!
Dennis
owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww i be afeared blah
Ya sposed to at least act like you is! Sheese! Oh well, ta other half is Cherokee...and they is peaceable.
Quote from: Dryball on October 27, 2009, 01:59:18 AM
Ya sposed to at least act like you is! Sheese! Oh well, ta other half is Cherokee...and they is peaceable.
Since when? I have read a lot about the Cherokee not being very neighborly when the white man was coming into their lands... bunkr
Yea, wasn't them an da Creeks the ones what give Davy Crockett and Andy Jackson all the problems AND what caused 'em ta walk the "Trail of Tears"?
Have I started another "Civil War".........how things can get so out of hand by asking just one little question........LOL
Hon
dont worrie about it beteen hank and JJ the civil wars don't amount to
much and don't last long. ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
We'uns is jest habben fun. Don't tak it to heart chrrs chrrs
hankaye
Yup just havin a little fun - thats the name of the game here - have fun - get some ideas for your persona - and relax with peopl who have an affinity for Black powder!
Some do carry it a little far but the Booshways are here to help smooth over any discussions that get out of hand. We try to be fair and respectful of each of our members and if someone feels we have come down to hard on them they can always PM Dryball or Heatherhistorian the two factors who are the (dare i say it...) GODS of this forum.....
Nuff said - back to havin fun!
Quote from: JamminJim on October 27, 2009, 08:40:40 PM
Yup just havin a little fun - thats the name of the game here - have fun - get some ideas for your persona - and relax with peopl who have an affinity for Black powder!
Some do carry it a little far but the Booshways are here to help smooth over any discussions that get out of hand. We try to be fair and respectful of each of our members and if someone feels we have come down to hard on them they can always PM Dryball or Heatherhistorian the two factors who are the (dare i say it...) GODS of this forum.....
Nuff said - back to havin fun!
WE thank you. Do continue.
Lived in Florida for a few winters as a kid for dads health reasons. Was In Sanford in Seminole County.
Voy
Well then by all mean continue. I'm voting for the south this time.............hahahaha
Ifin ya cant make fun of yer friends, who gona make fun of!!LOL!
You can make fun of your family..........I do it all the time.