Ran across this website with this "SALE";
<http://wyldewares.com/specials.aspx>
SOOOOO... I sent them an email asking where he got the guns from. This is the answer that I received;
I have them made by a company in india, i have a n order going out in the next week If you are interested in purchasing one please move fast or you will have to wait a bit
right now they're by order onlyand as soon as this order goes out i'll remove the list, until i order again, some guns are not available depends on my supplier having it in stock so email me if you need more info
Thankyou
Charles Wilkerson
(SCA: Lord Asolfr Vikarsson)
Wilkerson's www.WyldeWares.com
( SCA: Asolfr's Workshoppe)
Let me have it... worthwhile checking out or "if it's to good to be true, it probably isn't"?
IMHO... Run do not walk to the exit...
"These can be bought as firing or non-firing weapons. in-case you wish to give a gift or use in productions. they all can be fixed to fire ($25 for me to drill)"
To me this means they are made in a non-firing condition and as such the materials may not be safe to use when subjected to the rigors of firing Black powder thru them....
Now if ya just want a wall hanger... that is ok....
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL :-& :-&
Well, I sent the following to ask a few ?'s.
Appericate the info. Was taught at an early age ta ask a lot of questions. These are applicibal to all but I'm primarlly instrested in the 1669 French Musket ($475.00).
Here goes;
Are these barrells 'PROOFED' ?
is there any kind of warrenty?
what type of wood is used for the stocks?
You say in the add that if needed you can drill so the arm can be fired, does this imply that they are primarilly intended for "wall hanging"?
What is the Length of Pull for the French Musket? (also what are the other measurements, drop at comb. etc.)
Anything else that if you were thinking about buying YOU would ask to put your mind at ease...
Thanks again for your time;
hank
I'll keeps ya posted.
BTW JJ I'm pretty much of the same opinion as yeself.
Anyone else want to chime in...I'm a listenin
h-a
Ifn it sounds too good to be true hdslp you know the rest. All I can say is buyer beware!!!!
Back again
Update includes answers to ?'s I sent yesterday, after the Here goes: the ?'s are mine What comes after is his answers.
***
Appericate the info. Was taught at an early age ta ask a lot of questions. These are applicial to all but I'm primarlly instrested in the 1669 French Musket ($475.00).
Here goes;
Are these barrells 'PROOFED' ?
No they are not proofed by manufacturer, they are sent never used.
The Barrels are a D.O.M. Tubing very strong and can hold a regluar charge easily, i even know some who double or triple (no ball on those) and there is no adverse problems
is there any kind of warrenty?
I will Warrant the lock against defects, and normal use for a few months, if you remove the main springs with anything but a spring vise it voids any warranty. the lock will be either replaced or repaired , my choice.
what type of wood is used for the stocks?
To be honest i'm not sure, but i will try to find out
You say in the add that if needed you can drill so the arm can be fired, does this imply that they are primarilly intended for "wall hanging"?
It is simply a safety precausion, they are classified as Non-firing antique reprodutions. and that is what they are unless you choose to drill out a flash hole, then they are fully operational antique reproductions
What is the Length of Pull for the French Musket? (also what are the other measurements, drop at comb. etc.)
Not sure of the measurements, it is an acurate reproduction,
Anything else that if you were thinking about buying YOU would ask to put your mind at ease...
How long have i had this supplier?
Well this will be the first time i'v ordered with them directly, have always used a middle man, i.e. MSTCo and Loyalist arms, both great companies but a better deal to buy direct, and the last few orders with MSTCo have left very bad taste in my mouth.
But all in all i just wanted a better deal, Loyalist carries the same guns i can order.
How long have i shot?
I have been shooting from the age of 5, started doing minor smithing at 14, been into pirates since 3 (dads fault) and have made some of my own BP flintlocks and matchlocks when i was younger; from iron pipes and more.... some haven't come out so good (scars to prove).
I love guns and would not sale anything i would not shoot. honestly there is a bit much wood on the stocks, but if you want to do stock carving or just a little sanding and re-finishing they will turn out great
Please understand, i trust my items but i will not be held accountable for mis-use or overloading, you take full and complete responsability when shooting these, if you choose to drill a flash hole.
Thanks again for your time;
hank
***
Ok folks, any and ALL input greatfully appericated,
hankaye
Hmmm very intersting, pipe, wood, lock, blackpowder, BOOM! Sounds like something I woulda made when I was 12.
I have to be honest with you, it just doesn't sound like you are buying an item that is intended to be a working firearm. The species of wood isn't even known, the barrel is made from tube stock with no proof testing and no way to know how many PSI "tough" can contain, and you have to drill the flash hole yourself. A good looking wallhanger that makes sparks when you drop the hammer is one thing, but stuffing gun powder into a metal pipe that may or may not contain the pressure is another.
I urge extreme caution if you are going to do the latter.
I had to look up what D.O.M tubing was, for those like me. here is some help i found on the web
DOM tubing is made by rolling mild steel sheet and then welding the seam, then a a mandrel is run through the center to accurately size the tubing and smooth the weld seam, The additional mechanical working adds strength to the tubing by "cold working". Also with an accurate wall thickness it is very uniform and predictable.
True seamless tubing is another matter. This is made by taking a billet of steel and piercing it with a "bullet shape" to form a tube. This is expensive tubing as you can imagine.
Mild steel ( 1020 ), welded seam ( ERS) mechanical tubing would have a yield strength of around 40,000psi
DOM tubing ( which is usually made from 1020 and has a welded seam ) , due to the additional cold working could have a yield strength around 70,000psi. Also , this tubing would be more uniform in wall thickness than the ERS tubing.
I just don't know about that, i know damascus barrels here used in BP shotguns, and were mild steel, and twisted around a mandrel. and worked great.
Not knowing the country of origin, quality, and other unknown factors I would have to pass.
I just don't know if i would pull the trigger with 60-90 gr of FF 6 inches from my face.
Not A Rock Knocker...
Not a RockNocker, Good input, got me ta lookin. found that "The vender" said in his first answer to me (post#1), that they come from India. I also did a bit of research and found these;
Earle M_ Jorgensen Company ® - Products - Blue Book.mht! http://www.emjmetals.com/products/bluebook.asp
(see page 75)
and then there is;
Pirate4x4.Com
Bulletin Board > General Tech > General 4x4 Discussion >
What is DOM tube?
Follow the thread...
Then,
carbonalloytubing.pdf
Sooooo, when I start puttin all of this information togather I remembered TVMCo
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/index.shtml
Then go to FAQs They get thier's from India, I think this dude was getting from same source.
From the FAQ's;
Q #11: Is the vent hole drilled?
A: Yes. A flintlock without a vent hole is a fancy paperweight. We sell muzzleloaders, not paperweights. For paperweights, try an office supply store. For international shipment, we can provide an unvented barrel upon request, sometimes advance notice is needed for an unvented gun though as 99.99% of our customers want them ready to shoot.
I don't think he is getting from the same supplier as TVM... if he is he is getting their 2nd's, and that would lead me to believe that they are not safe.... I personally would save up for something that i am sure is safe rather than bet my life on something that might not be.... bunkr
I gamble but not with my life or health.....
Guys, Lets do a correction here. TVM is either Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading or Tennessee Valley Manufacturing. Middlesex Village Trading is MVT. Please don't confuse the two, it would be a great disservice to two quality builders, Matt Avance and Jack Garner. TVM = Quality, MVT = Junk.
Rick
Very sorry about the mix-up, slightly dislexyc some times shoot the wrong foot hdslp ment no disrespect intended, Recon that's why the other has the name so close to the other??
Movin on...
Sent an email to everyone's favorite female pirate( fncg ),to see what the rep is on the trader I was originally askin about.
Thought that she might use her seagoin contacts ta hep out.
hankaye
They do look nice,
i would like to handle one, and have a competent black powder gunsmith look it over.
before i made a decision.
the prices do not seem to be too bad.
almost pretty enough to give up my name and try knocking rocks again.
now a wheel lock!
there we go..
OOPs i just used the initials he used.... didn't even look at the website...
I have an mvt brown bess , and have never had a single problem with it ! the wood is`nt walnut ,it`s rose wood ,and therefore a bit heavier . which is fine for those who like less recoil ! the frizzen throws a great shower of sparks and so far has bee very dependable ! and being the cheap bugger that I am ,I would rather pay $475 than $1,000 or more !
I am still searching for the burst barrel incident via the internet. I have read second, third, forth, and so on accounts of this happening, however the sources that have writen of it cant point to where it took place, when and what not. Not that I doubt them, I just want to read it first hand. The pictures of the rifles on the Middlesex Village Trading Co. look good and I am curious about the dog lock rifle.
I Found it.
2 links, 1 discusses it, the other is to the actual page
Here is a Picture.
http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/1466 (http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/1466)
http://www.n-ssa.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9758&sid=3153f12d77deef85d532ec34ed2e7752 (http://www.n-ssa.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9758&sid=3153f12d77deef85d532ec34ed2e7752)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/Hawkeye/musket/100-0074_IMG.jpg)
I wonder how long it would hold up to 60-80gr. FF and a patched ball?
Ian
Great, thanks!
Hey don't get me wrong, i still want one, i just wonder about the feasibility of ordering one and having or putting a better barrel on it.
i think you still would be cheaper than a $1000 gun.
oh and they warranty the locks for life right?
and SHOULD be able to get a quality tube and breech plug fitted for $100 - $150 right?
Ian
from what I`ve heard, I`d say either the gun was overcharged ,or the ball was`nt seated properly ! and regardless of what some will tell you ,it is very possible to overcharge a muzzle loader , especially a smooth bore since the barrel is thinner than that of a rifle !
that burst musket has been beat to death over all forums. theres a lab report also on the burst barrel. this partucular one was burst at a re enactment firing blanks, no ball. i have handled several of these, ranging from pure junk to some decent LOOKING ones. it all boils down to how much value you put on saving a dime on a gun or blowing youself up.
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/special/HPWhiteReportWithPersonalInfoBlocked.pdf
Sounds like if you shoot enough without cleaning, you can go boom.
Quote from: titus on September 27, 2009, 01:09:52 AM
that burst musket has been beat to death over all forums. theres a lab report also on the burst barrel. this partucular one was burst at a re enactment firing blanks, no ball. i have handled several of these, ranging from pure junk to some decent LOOKING ones. it all boils down to how much value you put on saving a dime on a gun or blowing youself up.
http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/special/HPWhiteReportWithPersonalInfoBlocked.pdf
This makes more than a bit of sense ta me.
If'n yer gonna use it CLEAN IT
Think I will stick with proofed barrels, jus to be safe dntn
Quote from: Beau48 on October 01, 2009, 09:59:43 AM
Think I will stick with proofed barrels, jus to be safe dntn
Hopefully this link will take you to Ch. 11 in the book.
Long story = short; The U.S. of A. does not require Proof marks. WE, have SAAMI. They do the "unmentioniables" Not black powder. As i write this I am still Looking for something to see if there is a "Proofing Process" for our beloved BP firearms.
If ya goes to Wickipedia (ya, I know), and check out Proof Marks they have a listing for National Proof marks in the countries that do recoginize them
http://books.google.com/books?
id=YkcvshsGhagC&pg=PA369&lpg=PA369&dq=firearm+proof+marks&source=bl&ots=mEBJZaAR4J&sig=CMhcqLLobg1MEFfKmAqOBBT1B1o&hl=en&ei=dTnFSqeSGdTR8Abb7exC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CB4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=firearm%20proof%20marks&f=false
Live long an hang on to yer fingers.
hankaye
Oh, yea I'm going with a "Home Made" (USA), gun
Always proof my own.
double powder charge, double ball, string attached to trigger and and set in a tire then weighted down.
almost forgot, fingers crossed also, lol
Proofing your own, Hmmmmm...
Just a couple of questions...
I am sure that would void any warranty in the business.
IF it didn't stand up to the double charge & double ball. what would you have done with said destroyed rifle/shotgun?
Try to return it to the store or individual from who you purchased it?
What would you have told them when you did?
Would you just eat the $400 - $1000 you paid for the piece, hang it on the wall, and call it a Thank Goodness, lesson learned?
Just interested.
Ian
I set it up so that the wood was not needed, just the lock and barrel and spacers to hold the trigger in place so they could be used, have done it twice, no problems, charge was 130 grains of 2F.
o.k.
Having it blow there is much better than it blowing next to your face..
Ian
Whenever I hear of someone running their own proof tests...I always wonder:
How would anyone know if the proof test itself hasn't strained a barrel to the edge of its bursting point, weakening the barrel somewhere in the process, and vreating a much weaker barrel than before the proof test
??? ???
Catch-22...OK, it stood up to that! Now... will it be safe ta shoot? GOOD QUESTION. dntn