Traditional Muzzleloading on the Cheap

Whats your favorite brand of inexpensive rifle? Not custom made...even if you made it cheaply. If you have more then one favorite then say which they are.

Ned

Got several Traditions, CVA's and my Pedersoli Kentucky Flinter...that's probably my fave.

I don't see a vote for the Pedersoli David.

Ned

I voted for Traditions and was gonna vote for Pedersolis too.

Try now.

Ned

Cool beans!!

I've owned a few of each of the guns you have listed there. The TC flinter I had tended to smash flints against the frizzen all the time, so I sold it. The TC caplocks I've owned were reliable and straight shootersm but I prefer flint guns. The Lyman trade rifle I owned was a good gun, but once again, percussion. The traditions and CVA flint guns I've owned were excellent sparkers once the locks were tuned up on them. They were also very straight shooters. The Pedersoli that I own is the most over priced POC that I have ever owned. It's a Pensylvania 45 flinter. The lock main spring is under powered the frizzen does not move as freely as it should, and I have polished the crap out of it, and fit and finish was not what I expected out of a more pricey gun. Therefor I voted for the humble CVA for my favorite production gun. Cheap and easy to work on.

Most of my expierience has been with cap locks for the very cases mentioned.  When I started out years ago, the quality of the locks on the flint guns were questionable at best.  Even though I have always liked the looks of flinters best, I went with cap locks.  Not a lot to go wrong with a cap lock.  TC's are good guns but I have never really liked that trigger guard.  I owned a couple CVAs, the Mountain rifle I like well enough.  But my favorite at this time is my full stock Pedersoli cap lock with the barrel shortened to 28".

I have had 3 Traditions, 2 of which I still have and regret selling the other one. I have had 3 T/C and sold 2 of them (inlines)with no regrets. I'm walking the fence on the 3rd one which I just bought and is quite heavy and very accurate with PRB's, maybe I'll see about trading or selling it. I also own a Cabela's Hawkins, it weighs a ton but is pretty accurate 385gr conicals.

I have owned 4 CVA still have two of them mountain rifles with the American made barrels and both are tack drivers. Two Lyman's one flint one cap, 5 of the Cabala's Hawken  4 cap  45, 50, 54. 58 and 1 flint all left handed. Had a TC  Hawken but traded for a New
Englander, Hawken was a 50 cal right hander the New Englander is a left hander and it came with 54 cal rifle and 12 ga barrels

I voted CVA because my go-to gun is a CVA mountain Rifle in .50 cal w/MADE in USA barrel. I am working on one that has the spanish bbl in .54. the bbl is really rough, and I am in the process of converting it to flint. I would like to pick up a .45 mtn rifle as well...

I had to amend my choice of favorites.  I still love my Pedersoli .50 cap lock, but have recently got a .45 flint T/C off of Roundball.  I like the quality of T/C guns but was not that thrilled about the T/C Hawkin.  Just didn't do that much for me.  This gun however has restored my enthusiasm for the Hawkin.  The attributes out weigh the flaws.  I own seven T/C guns and this is my favorite.

Bringing her to the shoot on the 11th?

Ned

lyman GPR! thats the gun! most historicly accurate(with the choices givin) and most comfortable to shoot! its big, heavy, and very, very accurate. other wise it's a custom that i built. but dollar for dollar nothing, and i mean nothing out shoots, or out performes the GPR.

Quote from: Ned Christy on January 05, 2009, 02:50:17 AM
Bringing her to the shoot on the 11th?

Ned

what shoot where?

Quote from: Ned Christy on October 28, 2008, 01:22:03 AM
Whats your favorite brand of inexpensive rifle? Not custom made...even if you made it cheaply. If you have more then one favorite then say which they are.
Ned

I didn't see any way to actually "vote" for the benefit of the poll numbers, but my answer is Thompson Center Flintlocks, with the new redesigned improved locks on all of them...all are Hawkens with T/C or GM barrels, both rifles and smoothbores.

Would I like to experience a nice Issaic Haines...sure...but $$ being what it is I'd have to sell off a few Hawkens to do that and at age 63 I'm not sure if I want to start down a whole new road...have the whole T/C Hawken system of things going very well...parts are interchangeable, they all work perfectly, etc, etc,....guess I better stick.

5 Dogs Creek...a range about 35 miles south of Porterville, maybe about the same north of Bakersfield.

Ned

Quote from: Ned Christy on January 09, 2009, 02:44:55 PM
5 Dogs Creek...a range about 35 miles south of Porterville, maybe about the same north of Bakersfield.

Ned

nuts! thats tomorrow! woulda been nice.

Nope, it's this Sunday. Come on up....you can show us how to shoot. Really, would like to have you.

TG

I voted for T/C and Cva, I have both and they are good shooters. I have a Investarms 54 cal but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.

Quote from: Ned Christy on January 09, 2009, 04:42:28 PM
Nope, it's this Sunday. Come on up....you can show us how to shoot. Really, would like to have you.

TG

let me know with more warning on the next one, and i'll try! got family obligations this week end!

Okay..this group is the 2nd Sunday of every month and your invited to shoot with us any time.

Ned

Well you sorta made me think about what constitutes a favorite. For some reason the one I grab for is a $75 CVA. Cheaply made, a nothing special trigger pull, kinda short. Lapped the barrel real fine and ground the crown. And with card wads under a Lee REAL with black lube (lanolin mixed with graphite) it's just about as good a whacker as any 50-70 ever was...except the sight radius. And you can't go jacking up the charges and pretending it's a 50-110 or something. hntr

I voted Pedersoli because I used to shoot their Brown Bess untill I built one from The Rifle Shoppe[back when they would actually be able to get ya stuff in less than a year!]. It was a fine gun.

Quote from: Ned Christy on October 28, 2008, 01:35:51 AM
I don't see a vote for the Pedersoli David.

Ned

I'v a feelin i wud have voted Pedersoli if i owned or even ever shot one but i went with Lyman cause i do own & shoot one & its the best of any i ever shot  dntn

Quote from: BossHoss on January 22, 2009, 11:32:14 AM

Quote from: Ned Christy on October 28, 2008, 01:35:51 AM
I don't see a vote for the Pedersoli David.

Ned

We might aughta get together and let ya shoot my Pedersoli flinter.....

I'v a feelin i wud have voted Pedersoli if i owned or even ever shot one but i went with Lyman cause i do own & shoot one & its the best of any i ever shot  dntn

I own 3 T/C rifles All three are excellent shooters. I have a 50 cal. Renegade, 50 cal. Hawken cougar, and a 54 cal hawken. my favorite is my Renegade. thmbsup

Lyman  makes the best looking cheap rifle.  Thompson Center  makes the best quality cheap rifle.  Pedersoli doesn't make cheap rifles.

Other than the Made in USA CVA Mountain Rifle or a Traditions Crockett, I wouldn't own a Spanish made gun.

Quote from: Swampman on April 11, 2009, 11:40:36 AM
Lyman  makes the best looking cheap rifle.  Thompson Center  makes the best quality cheap rifle. 

um,,,,,,,,,,your not gonna like this at all, T/C barrels, locks, and triggers, are made by invest arms the same people that make lyman. so, if lyman is the best looking, you just compared it to itself, so its the best quality also.

T/Cs are made in the USA and always have been.  Invest Arms is an Italian company and always has been.

Quote from: Swampman on April 11, 2009, 12:59:35 PM
T/Cs are made in the USA and always have been.  Invest Arms is an Italian company and always has been.

ok this is really gonna hurt your feelings to, T/C barrels, triggers, and locks are made by invest arms and all interchange with the lyman, you know like ford and mercury. lyman is made in the usa also always has been. you going to have to get used to the idea that T/C parts are made in italy, heres another bubble burster for you not one part ona new harley davidson is made in this country, there crankcase has hecho en brazel, that aint spanish for made in milwalkee!

Crow Killer I hate to break this on you.  I just copied this from the Lyman website FAQ. 

- FAQs »
Muzzle LoadersMUZZLE LOADING RIFLESQ:

Where are the Lyman rifles made?
A: These are made in Italy, by Investarm.

my point was, and you missed it, so are the parts for T/C

Crow killer.... I was just thinking you might want to correct a statement you made..."lyman is made in the usa also always has been."  That was my point.  Sorry you didn't get it.   

no i did get it, what youmissed was i was being sarcastic

Both of you...Gene and Jean...cool it.

Ned

sorry, i tend to go on a bit about the lyman T/C thing, why people dont get that they are both investarms i dont understand

T/C parts are not made by Investarms.  They are made in the U.S.A. by T/C.  I know this for a fact.

Most Harley parts are made right here in the US.  I know this for a fact as well.

Only the forks, shocks, fuel injection, electronics, and a few plastic bits are not made in the US.

Direct from the T/C web site...

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/mzTraditional.php (http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/mzTraditional.php)

HAWKEN
A TOP QUALITY, AMERICAN MADE MUZZLELOADING RIFLE
In .50 Caliber Cap Lock Or .50 Caliber Flint Lock

Undoubtedly the most copied rifle in the history of firearms, the T/C Hawken™ was designed for the American shooter. This is a top quality firearm—every bit as fine as the one your great, great granddaddy carried across his saddle pommel or packed along on the wagon train. It captures the romance of the original but it is manufactured to standards of quality control that were unheard of in the early 1800's. The proper use of the inves™ent casting, improved methods of hardening parts and deep hole drilling, the use of continuous Magnaflux process to guard against imperfections in the steel itself coupled to our constant attention to min./max. tolerances is what allows us to offer a Lifetime Warranty! Inspect a T/C Hawken™ at your local dealer and compare it to all other brands before you purchase. We manufacture the finest quality muzzleloading firearms available.

 
T/C's famous Hawken™ Rifle is complemented by solid brass hardware. The butt plate, trigger guard and contoured patch box have been meticulously inletted and fitted to the American Walnut stock.



Now, I didn't look this up to spit in anyones eye, just to settle the question. Now, in my opinion, T/C is a decent gun, but way to pricey for my blood. You can buy a complete Dickert kit from TOW for what they want for a flinter from Thompson.

Quote from: Swampman on April 13, 2009, 09:19:18 PM
T/C parts are not made by Investarms.  They are made in the U.S.A. by T/C.  I know this for a fact.

Most Harley parts are made right here in the US.  I know this for a fact as well.

Only the forks, shocks, fuel injection, electronics, and a few plastic bits are not made in the US.

all the engine parts are made in brazil,  and the barrels, triggers, and locks on the T/C's interchange with the lymans and investarms, why, because they are made in italy. the way the law works is if final assembly is done here, you get to say made in usa.

i mean really, do you think its a coincidence that i can pull my coil spring lock out of my lyman, swap parts with a T/C and stick the whole program back in the T/C? its the same as pulling a 5.0 engine out of a mercury, and sticking it in a ford.

Quote from: Ranger on April 14, 2009, 12:19:30 PM


Now, I didn't look this up to spit in anyones eye, just to settle the question. Now, in my opinion, T/C is a decent gun, but way to pricey for my blood. You can buy a complete Dickert kit from TOW for what they want for a flinter from Thompson.

true they are decent guns! so are lymans, investarms, cabelas. you just get alot more for your money with the lyman.
(ford lincoln mercury)

OK. I've fired off an email to T/C. Hopefully they will send us an answer soon. It could be that you are correct about the assembled in the USA thing. On the other hand, I have a large siler mainspring in my pedersoli Bess. Now it took some work, but its there. lol.  hntr

and i have replaced parts in my lyman lock with T/C parts(needed a tumbler fast) and used the T/C coil spring

It appears that we are both...Master Parts Pirates!  ROFL Make do with what you have! lol. Its funny, I was gettin ready to go to a re-enactment and all I did was cock the lock to check the flint before I left my house and I heard it snap. My heart sank! So I rummage thru the ol parts box and found the only extra main spring I had and MADE it work. Slow work on the belt grinder and a spot of silver solder on the lock plate to hold everything together. That was only supposed to last the day, that was 1 year and a half ago!  ROFL

to true! lucky me the parts dropped in!

Yup!!! ROFL

We make our own products here in Rochester, NH. Thank you and have a nice day.



Danielle, Customer Service Rep.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Lewis
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 5:47 PM
To: tca_customerservice
Subject: T/C Part Question



Are any T/C parts made by Investarms?



Mark Lewis

Harley engine parts are not made in Brazil.

Enough on the subject of where T.C.s are made. Please stick to the question of what your favorite make of rifle is. Thanks.

Dryball

I am sure we have all owned several different makes, models and if you think back on each after you bought them..

I have owned several, pedersoli, richland, armi san marcos, tc, investarms, jukar, cva, lyman, traditions, uberti, Ruger old army. and i can say i found something to like about each and every one.

Uberti has a much richer blue than richland, cva or traditions pistols, traditions cost less, cva was good shooter, but didn't like the logo stamped in the revolver frame, some had a better fit, some had a better trigger, ruger didn't feel right..

Pedersoli tryon, was a tack driver from a clean barrel, pillowticking, and patch .490 ball would make 1 jagged hole at 50 yds, but it was only rated for not more than 90 gr of powder, my tc is rated for more, but haven't found the sweet load for it.

I have been known to swing from liking brass furniture, to black, but have always liked color case hardened furniture.

Harley holds its value, Honda runs forever... 1976 harley (owned it from 91-94) had to work on it all week to ride it on weekend, 1976 cb750f, (owned it from 98-03)honda gas it and go.

Ford, Chevy, Jeep, they all make a good product, and each fills a certain niche.

Every now and then you get a lemon, but on average they are all of decent quality, or they would not have been in business for so long.

AT THIS TIME i am liking my T/C hawken, and want the new case hardened remington cabelas sells..

My .50 is a T-C Hawken I built from a kit in the late 70's.  It began as a flintlock but my desires changed so I bought a T-C percussion lock, made a drum to fit the flint vent hole, installed a nipple and haven't looked back.  Over the years I made changes, swapped a friend the brass furnishings off my Hawken for the steel ones off his Renegade,  fitted an iron buttplate, poured a pewter nose cap, sawed and filed my own front sight out of a piece of 1/2" key stock, put in some brass tacks just fer perty.   I've even gotten into arguments with various "Museum Curators"  who seem to know a great deal more about a rifle I built than I do.

I had a Lyman GPR, didn't like it, it felt funny to me.  Same with a Cabela's Hawken, just didn't feel right.   I now have a T-C Seneca which had a bad bore so I had it reamed to .50 smooth, and am currently making up a .40 drop-in out of a G-R barrel.  I bought the barrel from TOW and had them breech it with their t-c compatible plug.  Not expensive at all.  Once the Seneca's .40 barrel is all done and browned I think it will go to the front of the line.  I'm getting old, arthritic and stove up and that small caliber lightweight rifle fits my situation very well.

Three Hawks

THANK YOU!!!

I was begining to think i was the only one who bought a gun for it's looks, but later got rid of it because it didn't "feel right".  No matter how much you tried to like it...

  I like the CVA, Traditions, and Dikars I have. I am working on getting a TC Hawken kit later this summer. I also like my oddball--I have an old Numrich Arms .45 Swivel Breech. I love it but the mainspring broke and I have not been able to find a replacement and did make one but I have not been able to get the temper right on it. Its easier to correctly temper a knife, hawk, striker or frizzen than this spring. The CVA's-1 Kentucky, 1 Hawkin, The Traditins-1 Pennsylvania flintlock, Dikar-1 Pennsylvania, 1 .45 Philadelphia Derringer.
Love em all.   As long as they are a traditional wood stocked- side lock M/L. they are my kinda gun.
Voy

Quote from: voyageur1688 on April 25, 2009, 10:22:59 PM
 As long as they are a traditional wood stocked- side lock M/L. they are my kinda gun.

If I had a son...I'd hope he'd be like you.  ;D

  Quigley,
I am up for adoption. My X-wife tried to give me back to my mother but she didnt want me either.
Voy

Of the ones I've owned and speaking ONLY of quality, the Pedersolis are good and their dbl shotguns are superb.  The best made and my favorite flint rifle is by Matt Avance at TVM, hands down.  My favorite Cap gun is a marvelous US M1841, Mississippi rifle in .the original .54 caliber.  I bought from Jarnigans in Ms. and it was imported by Euroarms.  Not really sure who built it but it is custom quality in fit, finish and accuracy.

Quote from: voyageur1688 on April 26, 2009, 07:58:55 PM
  Quigley,
I am up for adoption. My X-wife tried to give me back to my mother but she didnt want me either.
Voy

Keep your room clean, take out the trash and mow the yard every week...hope you like Ramen noodles too.  ;D

Now hold on a minute. Keep my room clean? Yikes!!! thats askin alot. I do mow my lawn when it needs it-- which is about 6 times a summer and I do take the trash out..... now I just gotta take it ta the dump so I can use my patio. Ramen noodles? I love em. They go great with fresh muskrat.
Voy

I prefer my own because most off the shelf rifles do not fit me well.  The only off the shelf that fits me is an Umberti Santa Fe.  I do recommend the GPH for new people coming in.

Mine for right now is the new Traditions i just got!  Thanks DB! 

I'm sure it will change when I get the TVM... but thats a couple of months down the road....

Quote from: Wyoming Mike on August 12, 2009, 03:12:36 PM
I prefer my own because most off the shelf rifles do not fit me well.  The only off the shelf that fits me is an Umberti Santa Fe.  I do recommend the GPH for new people coming in.

I have that same problem but from the other extreme.  Being short, All modern rifles and most MLs are way too long in the butt stock and I don't have a neck like a giraffe!  Youth models work fine for me.

#1 fav. is my vintage CVA penn. long rifle best shootin iron I've ever put to my shoulder!!! Its a keeper Ive owned this smokepole for over 20 years and could not bear to part with it!!!#2nd would have to be pedersoli only own 1 but its built well and is real easy to look at!!! Shoots almost as good as my CVA (almost);) #3 Thompson center 54 cal. I have 2 and both are excellent shooters!!! Only thing is I wish they would put traditional buckhorn sights on them !!!