I have decided to buy a pistol kit. I want to stay with either .45 or .54 caliber. Prefer percussion.
I can buy Traditions kits all day long in .50 but I'm trying to stay away from that caliber. I mostly want one of those kits that requires very little specialized tools or knowledge. From what I've researched, I need to stay away from the CVA kits, because they require wood trimming, tang bending, and all kinds of other stuff that I'm not prepared to mess with on my first kit. I need something that's well inletted from the factory and will have a 99% chance of fitting up and screwing together the first time. I need an ARF (almost ready to fire) kit. You know -- open the box, pour in some stain and barrel finish, turn a few screws, sand a little here and there -- shake well and go shoot it.
Lyman makes the Great Plains .54, but that's darned expensive for a first kit.
Every Traditions kit I can find is .50 caliber.
I just want to go through the exercise of assembling a kit. Gotta start somewhere if ya ever hope to turn a chunk of walnut and some steel into a real rifle that you can be proud of.
may be best to stay with same caliber rifle that you shoot. That way you will NEVER get wrong round ball in wrong barrel, dont need to carry 2 different projectiles plus it is less expensive. Here in Pennsylvania, cant hunt with any muzzle loader pistol less than 50 caliber.
ROFL
That made me chuckle!!
In my opening post, I specifically made it a point NOT to go off on a tangent about why I don't want a .50 caliber pistol. I had this long explanation typed out about how I don't want a .50 and why and -blah- -blah- -blah- -- but I proofread it and decided that would sidetrack the entire thread. The "why" of me NOT wanting a .50 was for the EXACT reason you just stated, Pilgrim. ROFL ROFL
I already have several rifles and pistols in the following calibers:
.36
.45
.54
........ and I have ONE stinkin' .50 rifle. It's a fine little gun. It's a rugrat rifle that Mike Lange built for my son. It shoots fantastic and it's a beautiful little rifle. But it's the ONE .50 caliber in the safe and I can't STAND having to keep .490 balls around for that one darn rifle. I hate that caliber so much, I've threatened to call Mike and ask him to re-barrel it in .45. I should have put more thought into it, when I asked Mike to build the rifle. It was my mistake, not his, to build a .50
By the time my son gets big enough to go elk hunting, he'll be able to shoot a .54 and I'll get him another rifle. He can use a .45 in Nebraska, which is where we've been hunting for whitetails - even though we live in Colorado. He can't use a .45 in Colorado unless he shoots a conical - and his little shoulder won't handle that anyway. There's no sense in re-barreling that rifle to .54 because he doesn't need it.
I just hate having so many different size balls around. I've got balls for this and balls for that -- jags for this and rods for that -- patches for that one and none for this one......... I almost feel like I need a separate shooting kit for each gun!! It's ridiculous!! hdslp ucrzy
I know some of you guys probably think I'm an idiot, because you have 15 different calibers and you're thinking, "why wouldn't ya want one from each caliber?" I've got enough stuff going on in my life, and muzzleloading requires a lot of gear - and I ain't buying anymore gear for different size guns. I already have a TON of stuff. I'm trying to keep my life reasonably simple and CHEAP by sticking to .36, .45 and .54
So....
I want a pistol kit in EITHER .45 or .54, because that's what most of my guns are already chambered for. I wouldn't mind a .36, but I'd PREFER 45 or 54
the lyman does cost a little bit more but, from my interpretation of yer post I believe it's one you'd be most happy with. and it would suit yer skill level requirements. midsouth shows them to be in stock & the price is only $225.00 & 54 cal is available. luck & have a good'en friend, bubba.
thmbsup I would have to agree, the Lyman kit would be the way to go. IF I remember correctly they are just about the only kit you will find in .54. AND the quality will be much better. Now if ya want a Kentucky full stock Dixie Gun Works carries a Pedersoli kit in 54 . Close to the same price.
The Lyman kit is the way to go, I bought a unopened kit at a yard sale several years ago. It is pretty much take it out of the box sand and stain, blue or brown it, screw it together and go shoot it. It would be a good easy project to share with your son if that's what you had in mind. dntn
I just built a flintlock "kit" from Deer Creek in Indiana. It was just a hair over $200 ($205 I think). They have percussions for about $20 cheaper. I'm pretty sure they offer both .45 and .50 cals.
It's called an American pistol kit but it's really an old CVA mountain pistol. No instructions, just a bunch of parts.
Here's my finished gun.
thmbsup Thanks for posting this Patocazador . I had been thinking about that pistol in caplock didnt know they had em in flint. In ky opinion its one of the better lookin pistols out there.
If you call them to order, tell them you'll only accept a kit with parts that aren't rusted. I was stupid not to state that and I got a barrel that had quite a bit of surface rust and a bit of pitting that took quite awhile to file down. The bore was clean though.
Only took a year and a half, but I finally got my hands on a kit. My father's girlfriend gave me a CVA Philidelphia Derringer kit a few weeks ago. It's been sitting in her garage for many years.
It appears complete, except for one item. It's missing one of the brass pieces that the barrel pin passes through. I'm sure I can buy a small sheet of brass at the store and cut/file one by using the existing as a pattern.
Even though it was free, I'm still scared to mess it up. After the kit is all fitted and ready for assembly, I'm going to take it to the gunsmithing school in Denver and have them blue the barrel.
Quote from: ChrisHarris on March 02, 2016, 03:07:33 AM
Even though it was free, I'm still scared to mess it up. After the kit is all fitted and ready for assembly, I'm going to take it to the gunsmithing school in Denver and have them blue the barrel.
Don't be too afraid of messing it up, it is more important to do it and gain some confidence because that is the only way to get better. My first kit gun was a CVA pistol and it got stolen years ago. It was never very accurate and it just looked "OK" but I was proud of it and wish I still had it.
Definitely don't be afraid to blue it yourself. There are several good bluing (and browning) mixes out there. I have tried many of them and found that they have different characteristics for different applications. Even though they are all "cold" bluing solutions, I found that with most of them I can make a deeper longer lasting blue by heating the barrel a bit then applications of heat and oil to really set the color. And if you feel you messed it up, a bit of rubbing with steel wool and do it again. Much better to spend $10 for a DIY finish than spending who knows how much for a hot blue job. Just my dos centavos worth.
those old cva kits are actually some of the easier kits . I`ve built several . this one is a cva frontier in .45 cal I put together as a christmas gift for a friend ! it had a part ot two missing , and the trigger guard was broken , but fixed up nice and shoots they way it should .
I've got a Lyman GPP that I won at a match when I lived in Oregon. It was very simple to put togeather . I had been wanting a 54 Cal. pistol because, like you didn't want to carry the extra gear. I had a 50 Cal. CVA and ended up giving it to a youngster friend of mine. The Great Plains Pistol shoot great although it doesn't seem to like light loads. I didn't like the factory sights so I changed them to a full buckhorn sights. Getting excellent groups at 50 ft. with it.
That CVA derringer is an easy one to put together. I did it for my first one back in the late 70s.
Don't expect great accuracy.
I'm just tickled to death. I'm grateful for the kit and I want to get started.
hotfxr - the local gunsmithing school does really good work and they do it for really cheap prices. I've used cold blue to touch up parts in the past, but was never happy with the results. To that end -- what would be period correct for this pistol? I don't think it would look good with a case hardened lock and a browned barrel. It feels like it would look better with a blued barrel.
Anybody know the twist rate in the barrel? Not that it will make much difference.....
Bluing has been a fairly common gun finish for a lot longer than some of us seem to realize, whereas browning was far from the universal process that many of the same "some of us" insist on believing it to have been. Not to say it wasn't a common finish, just that it wasn't the "one and only" that some think it to have been.
To go off on a quick tangent, I chuckle when I recall an uber-purist at Friendship displaying his most recent browned masterwork, and Jim Chambers (you know, that obscure lock guy who knows a BIT about the original guns) dryly commenting, "Very nice. You've replicated a 200-year-old rifle." Which is how so many originals have come to now appear to have been browned -- they've been around for a couple centuries. Ever seen how beautifully-browned a lot of not-so-old hammers and wrenches are just from sitting in toolboxes? Likewise with guns. In a great many cases they weren't that way to start with. A surprising number were what we call "in the white" when their first owners took possession. They didn't look like museum pieces.
Back on-topic, blue the gun if that pleases you. It will be absolutely 100% correct on a gun of the mid-19th century, and so far as being correct on a "derringer" -- there were many, many, many imitations and knock-offs of the actual Henry Deringer pocket pistol, so there would be no accurate, educated means of anyone declaring that this type of pistol was "always" this or "never" that. And, if you like using the gunsmithing school's student services, great, go for it. I like the notion of giving such students some real-world practice of their craft. However, a very good blue job can be had using Birchwood Casey's "Super Blue" formula, if you read and FOLLOW the directions and are willing to possibly repeat the process. The result is a pleasing blue-black that holds up well. Not a high-end hot-blue finish by any means, but decent and arrived at via a single bottle of fluid that retails for around $11-$12.
And, incidentally, Traditions and CVA are the same critter, just that Traditions has a bit better fit and finish. I can't speak to issues like having to bend the tangs on the one "brand" but not on the other, since I don't assemble kits of any kind, but both have always been made in the same Spanish factory.
Thanks Mike. Your insight as always, is very much appreciated.
I started working on the lock plate today. Trying to attach pics, but they are too big and I can't resize them in my smart phone.. Apparently it's too dumb. slap
I did an inventory of my parts. I'm missing several pieces. Screws, the barrel pin, that brass piece for the barrel pin, and the bolt that goes through the front trigger guard hole, into the trigger.
Time for a trip to the local Ace.
as mike said , bluing has been around for a very long time . I`ve seen original 16th century suits of armor that were blued !
Quote from: ChrisHarris on March 03, 2016, 06:28:30 AM
I started working on the lock plate today. Trying to attach pics, but they are too big and I can't resize them in my smart phone.. Apparently it's too dumb. slap
I did an inventory of my parts. I'm missing several pieces. Screws, the barrel pin, that brass piece for the barrel pin, and the bolt that goes through the front trigger guard hole, into the trigger.
Time for a trip to the local Ace.
For everything but the wood screws, Deer Creek Products (deercreekproducts.net) sells replacement parts for the CVA Philadelphia Derringer. They even have on-line ordering.
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Quote from: mongrel on March 03, 2016, 03:55:20 PM
For everything but the wood screws, Deer Creek Products (deercreekproducts.net) sells replacement parts for the CVA Philadelphia Derringer. They even have on-line ordering.
Thanks Mike!!
I found one of these puppies in a pawn shop last year. The full cock did not work but it was only $50 OTD. I worked the lock over and now it's a fine pistol.
BartSr
I need help with the barrel.
I'm dealing with some spot rust on the barrel. I'm planning to blue it. File the rust off with a flat file? Sand with heavy grit paper?
Is it okay to file off, the serial number and all writing on the barrel?
What level of polishing is normal, underneath the tang? At the back of the breach plug? Under the barrel?
I have a cheap sand blasting cabinet from Harbor Freight. Using glass bead it would make short work of that rust without damaging the metal like sand would. Short a bead blaster, I (and only I, this is just my opinion) I would use the rust & bluing remover from Birchwood Casey then blue away. (They make a bluing kit that is, or used to be quite reasonable that has everything you would need to blue 3-4 pistols or a couple of rifles)
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