Help a poor lost and lonely soul out here on the rocky left coast understand. What exactly is the twice yearly gathering in Friendship entail. I looked at the web page and it looks like a lot of fun and it looks large. What all goes on there?
Hotfxr,
The best way to describe Friendship is that it is 600 +/- acres of fun. Any direction you look there will be something to see or do related to muzzleloading. The sheep sheds, traders row, has everything you think you might need but usually slows down after the first weekend, but if you're a shooter, it goes on all week. I don't know where you are but if you're close, you should try to get to the winter nationals north of Phoenix in February, it's very similar but smaller.
Mark
Well, there's a non-juried, pretty laid-back primitive encampment, there's Commercial Row (also known as Traders Row or the Sheepsheds) across the two-lane state highway from the encampment, there's a series of shooting ranges for various disciplines in further past Commercial Row, there's regular camping, and there's two respectably-sized flea markets flanking the whole shebang. Many of the camper/vendors in what we call "the Primitive" are highly knowledgeable folks and are liable to turn a sale or even a customer's question into an entertaining history lesson, and some of us up in Commercial Row are known to occasionally talk at length to passers-by who are unwise enough to ask questions that we think we have answers to (not necessarily the RIGHT answers, just answers). If an item of gear or clothing can't be found there, odds are it doesn't exist.
Caveat: If someone's perception is that the only "correct" example of a specific item is one made by a single hermit in Wyoming whose great-great-great-granddaddy handed down the secret through only each firstborn of the male line, and that everything else is an unworthy imitation, in that case you more than likely WON'T find it at Friendship -- but guns, clothing, and accoutrements satisfactory to 99.99% of the participants in this pasttime are available there. Several world-class gunbuilders have booths there and if you favor items such as Chambers and L&R locks, Davis locks and triggers, Rice barrels, and a variety of other top-notch components for builders, find the right booth and you can buy the things right from the source.
You can do period correct if you want, but it's not required; it's not required that you shoot competitively; it's not required that you buy or join anything; we do strongly-encourage you to have fun. There are the actual formal Shoots up on the line, there are woodswalks, there are competitions involving a real blockhouse and a simulated Indian attack, there's hawk-chucking and knife-tossing, and most everywhere you turn if you get footsore there's a chair to toss down in and get to know new friends. Laughery Creek flows alongside of State 62 and there are some respectably-sized fish in it, if you have a license and a mind to get a line wet.
The official cause to all of this are the Spring and Fall National Championship NMLRA Shoots, but to be perfectly honest I've never fired a gun on the line and if it weren't for the non-stop blast and crack of rifles, pistols, and smoothbores I wouldn't be able to swear there was a range there at all.
Like minded individuals from all walks of life. I think I got a few pics. Let me look.
Mongrel in his old booth (Sheepsheds).
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo35/bogie_bucket/100_2401.jpg) (http://s359.photobucket.com/user/bogie_bucket/media/100_2401.jpg.html)
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo35/bogie_bucket/100_2397.jpg) (http://s359.photobucket.com/user/bogie_bucket/media/100_2397.jpg.html)
Some of the Primative area
(http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo35/bogie_bucket/100_2400-1.jpg) (http://s359.photobucket.com/user/bogie_bucket/media/100_2400-1.jpg.html)
Looking across the Creek at the Sheep sheds/ Firing line.
He does look kind of like his little avatar, doesn't he? ROFL ROFL ROFL
Quote from: hotfxr on September 05, 2013, 01:34:52 AM
He does look kind of like his little avatar, doesn't he? ROFL ROFL ROFL
Yes hotfxr you could be right! pnic pnic
Except I think he has a better Smile in the Avatar Picture. [hmm]
;D
Never cared for having my picture taken. Back in the days when pictures couldn't be deleted, had to be developed, and you had to buy film for every shot and that film could pretty pricey, people tended to give up trying to take my picture because of how quick my middle finger can reflex when a camera's aimed my way.
But other than the one of me thinking "Go away", those are some pretty good shots of the grounds. As you can see, it's a beautiful part of the country, and, as a major bonus, on the majority of the NMLRA grounds you can't get cell phone service. You do get a certain number of people walking around with the plastic umbilical device attached to their ear, repeatedly saying in different tones and levels of voice, "Can you hear me?" But eventually most of them give up, actually talk to one another instead of into the electronic ear-teat, and start to pay attention to what's going on around them -- and I think they're the better for it.
Friendship, on a distinctly non-religious, non-faith-based level, for black powder folks is sort of akin to Mecca for followers of Islam, or the Vatican to Catholics. It's not necessary to go there to completely enjoy and appreciate this pasttime, but if at all possible, at least just once, a person if at all possible should. thmbsup
Quote from: mongrel on September 06, 2013, 03:37:15 AMFriendship, on a distinctly non-religious, non-faith-based level, for black powder folks is sort of akin to Mecca for followers of Islam, or the Vatican to Catholics. It's not necessary to go there to completely enjoy and appreciate this pasttime, but if at all possible, at least just once, a person if at all possible should. thmbsup
So from your description it seems that this is the Sturgis for muzzleloaders. This year like the last few before, has not been, well let's just say financially rewarding, but 2014 might see me taking breaks from my hermit ways and this seems to be a destination worth visiting. If I had to choose spring or fall, which would I like better?
I'd be inclined to say spring (June), but it's pretty close to six one way, half a dozen the other. I think there's a somewhat larger crowd in June simply because, all else being equal, kids are out for summer vacation and if families are going to show up at all, it'll be in June.
And the comparison to Sturgis about nails it.
My only question is - (When I used go to Sturgis I used to stop at friends places to crash on the way... ) How many bedrooms you have at your place Mike? pnic
REd Badger--He does have a spare dog house...
Doug
I actually have two, but the upstairs one is stock blank storage. I think there's still a couch in the living room, but with all the crap piled on it I haven't actually seen it in over a year.... rdfce
As I see it, No one can accuse you of being a couch potato.
I had a couch like that! &)
I wouldn't exactly call it a rule, it's just the way things work out since it's easier than actually throwing away 90% of the clutter -- if it's horizontal or has walls, it will be used for storage.
The more "stuff" you have on your sofa the less likely it is to run away from home. You know; dogs, cats and human cabooses, "stuff".
Mark
As of Wednesday, Sept. 18, I will go on record that June is the better event to plan for if someone is only going to attend one or the other Shoot. It would be more in my (and my fellow vendors') interest to encourage attendance at the Fall Shoot, but truthfully this year's event is, from where I stand, not much to write home about. June was much livelier, or at least my memory says it was.
Mongrel, In talking to folks on the primitive camp side, lots of them were pulling up stakes early to go to the Eastern Primitive Rendezvous.
I think NMLRA overlapped the Schedule for some reason?
Mike that was the talk around Ken's booth also. Several vendors expressed the view that that are leaning towards the spring shoot only. On a brighter personal note, in addition to seeing Mike I also had the pleasure of meeting Watauga and hang out with some great folks.
The Fall Shoots and the Eastern have always overlapped, at least as long as I've been in a position where it paid me to be aware. Being as how the Shoots are an institution that goes back to the 1930's, were I on the scheduling committee of the Eastern I'd suggest moving the time frame for it a week or two, so as NOT to conflict with the NMLRA's schedule. It isn't like the NMLRA sets its Shoot dates at random or that there aren't sufficient remaining weeks in the late summer and early fall for another major whoop-de-do with a completely separate time frame. The Shoots begin the second Saturday of each June and September and run nine days, no more or less short of an act of God (I have been witness to two such that seriously disrupted things). This has been the structure for longer than the 18 years I've been attending both Shoots, so no one can claim a lack of awareness of what their schedule might be, from one year to the next.
pnic pnic pnic National Rendezvous and Living History Foundation, organizing group of the NMLRA rendezvous. pnic pnic pnic
hdslp I thought they would work to keep these kind of thing's from happening??? [hmm]
You would think....
I honestly don't know and don't feel much like speculating on how complicated it actually is to keep event times straight. It would SEEM to me that with a basic calender, a telephone, and an e-mail account, things could be organized and kept straight with relatively little fuss, but maybe my preference for keeping things simple, efficient, and hassle-free is why I'm not cut out for upper-level management and organizational duties.
I dislike needless negativity, but if the truth is to be told as to how the 2013 Fall Shoots played out, it must be said that from all standpoints I'm aware of -- after the first three days it was simply dismal.
I and several of the vendors around me are going to concoct a commercial to be paid for and played on the local (Dearborn and Ripley Counties in SE Indiana) radio station, advising folks that, contrary to appearances from the road outside, there are a number of us open all week, who between us have guns, gun parts, jewelry, beadwork and beadwork supplies, knives and hawks, and other sundries and goods to offer the buying public, and that we would much appreciate being paid a visit. This would primarily only draw in some of the steady traffic moving between the two flea markets that flank the pay-to-get-in NMLRA Commercial Row, but at this point it's slow enough after Tuesday, with four days yet to be slogged through, that something has got to at least be attempted to turn the situation around. It wouldn't help me, since the vast majority of the flea market crowd would never in a million years consider paying the price I have to get for my guns, but due to my low overhead (I live local, so my travel and lodging are financial non-issues) I'm not hurting too awful bad if I sell little or nothing. There is a total count of between six and eight of us, though, clustered on one row, who stay for the duration, and most of the others sell items of much lower cost and much greater appeal to the general public than my guns. For their sake it's worth trying anything we can to get people to wander to the rear area of Commercial Row and have a look-see.
Mike,
Unfortunately I didn't make it to Friendship this Fall but have been hearing the rumblings you are concerned about. I have also heard of a few of the vendors considering the Spring shoot only. Perhaps as an incentive to get some to stay beyond the first weekend, the NMLRA could be asked post something in Muzzle Blasts listing those who "commit to stay longer", prior to the shoot. It might induce someone who can't make it early to come down later in the week anyway.
Mark
That's not a bad idea, Mark. Not bad at all. It would tie in with the plan of myself and the ones around me, who stick it out, to try and bring it to the public's attention that WE ARE THERE, day-in, day-out, till the end.
Visiting my ex-co-workers earlier today, they told me that for several weeks prior to the Shoots they heard multiple commercial spots on the local radio station for the flea markets that flank either end of the NMLRA grounds, but never a word about the Shoots and the vendors there. That "local station" is background noise in easily half the vehicles, homes, and businesses in this area, and obviously commercials are paid some attention to, or my ex-co-workers couldn't have told me what they'd heard. Like I said before, bringing in a larger amount of local traffic probably won't be of great benefit to me, personally, but the folks selling beadwork, jewelry, knives and hawks, leatherwork, other smaller-ticket items -- they offer quality American-made, often handmade goods, at decent prices.
Ah, well, this is preaching to the choir and accomplishing nothing. Time to get to work.
Perhaps a Coupon at the gate after paying the gate Fee for the gate amount off the purchase price of things in the Traders row and Primitive sales areas?
As packed as the Flea Markets are somehow they need to get more people to the Venders at the NMLRA Events.
Might Encourage them to find Something to buy?
And advertising that the Venders will be open is a good Idea as you can save a bundle on shipping charges and plus get to see what you are buying.
If you know who is attending and that they will be open.
"That they will be open" is the whole catch. Quite a few -- I would say well over half -- the vendors in both June and September bug out around Tuesday or Wednesday. Most actually don't have other events to get to, they have a backlog of work waiting at home and have to consider the value of their time when, frankly, after opening weekend we all spend most of each day socializing, visiting the flea markets, catching naps, getting small items of work done in our booths, and a few times a day actually waiting on customers. I would very much like to see more people stay, but in terms of dollars and cents and efficient time management I can think of no compelling reason why they should.
The very nice lady I spoke to, earlier today, about radio advertising, has lived in this area all her life and, obviously, has a vested interest in being aware of events and happenings that might generate commissions for her, for selling commercial spots. Until today, when I explained who I was and what I did, she had heard, vaguely, about something called "the Friendship Shoots" but had no idea when they were held or that they had any relationship to the flea markets that she visits every June and September. So much for the notion that all of SE Indiana knows and takes pride in a twice-yearly tradition going back to the 1930's, which seems to be the NMLRA's view of its own importance.
This is not lack of attention on the part of the general public, it's a failure of communication on our end, and I mean us as individuals in this pasttime as well as the NMLRA. Explaining to me how advertising works, the lady I spoke to today said that it always has to be remembered that the listener to a radio spot or the reader of an ad or article is completely self-centered. If the spot or ad or article doesn't hit a button in terms of "What is this going to do for ME?" the information will "blip" right off the listener or reader's awareness and be forgotten within seconds.
In the course of associating mainly with people like ourselves in thinking and action (including taking part in sports and pasttimes), we sometimes get the highly mistaken idea that what we do and what we enjoy is way more important in the larger picture than is actually the case. People are not wandering around, lost, out there, wishing for participation in muzzleloading to complete their lives. Most people are blissfully unaware of what we do or why we do it. Many of them MIGHT very well enjoy participating, but it's us who have to reach out to them, rather than opening the range at Friendship twice a year or holding rondies and then wondering why the grounds aren't packed with eager newbies and paying customers. The general public is under exactly zero obligation to make itself aware of the NMLRA, of muzzleloading, of shooting in general, of why the ownership and responsible use of firearms is an American birthright.
The responsibility for making that known is on us, and here in my neck of the woods the largest muzzleloading organization in the entire country is failing. And, sadly and infuriatingly, a great many participants in the Shoots give no indication of caring, so long as there's a range and competition to gather into twice a year.
And, just so we're not talking apples and oranges, here -- bringing more warm bodies with money into the Shoot grounds won't really help the NMLRA and the pasttime as a whole. A few might be inspired to try muzzleloading and buy a membership and have that turn into a lifelong enjoyment, but most will, if they do anything, buy a few things and then head on to whichever of the two flea markets they were moving toward when sidetracked through the NMLRA gate. "Local traffic" in SE Indiana isn't going to do much of anything to offset the dwindling national numbers in this sport. Those dwindling numbers can't be attributed to (or, more correctly, blamed on) the NMLRA. That comes down to each of us and our efforts to present this pasttime as something worthwhile and enjoyable enough to rate an investment of time, money, and energy on the parts of people around us.
Exactly right, Mike. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but that is why we have to reach out individually to people who might become interested.
I disagree about it not being the NMLRA's fault, tho. They do very little to reach out to anyone, especially out here in the west. You mention the two national shoots, fact is there are THREE national shoots, & even someone like yourself, as involved in the NMLRA as you are, overlooks the Western National Shoot almost every time. Truth is, 1/3 of the national matches are treated like a red headed step child by the NMLRA.
Quote from: Rev on September 24, 2013, 02:20:23 PM
Exactly right, Mike. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but that is why we have to reach out individually to people who might become interested.
I disagree about it not being the NMLRA's fault, tho. They do very little to reach out to anyone, especially out here in the west. You mention the two national shoots, fact is there are THREE national shoots, & even someone like yourself, as involved in the NMLRA as you are, overlooks the Western National Shoot almost every time. Truth is, 1/3 of the national matches are treated like a red headed step child by the NMLRA.
What Rev said! thmbsup
Quote from: Rev on September 24, 2013, 02:20:23 PM
Exactly right, Mike. I know I am preaching to the choir here, but that is why we have to reach out individually to people who might become interested.
I disagree about it not being the NMLRA's fault, tho. They do very little to reach out to anyone, especially out here in the west. You mention the two national shoots, fact is there are THREE national shoots, & even someone like yourself, as involved in the NMLRA as you are, overlooks the Western National Shoot almost every time. Truth is, 1/3 of the national matches are treated like a red headed step child by the NMLRA.
I mention the Spring and Fall Shoots because they're what I have a firsthand relationship with. I have a knowledge of their structure, timing, and problems, and I dislike making assumptions about things I don't know about, so I refrain from much commentary on subjects I don't have the same personal knowledge of and stake in. For the purpose of this topic, I'm talking about what I and a small group of fellow vendors HERE are trying to do to improve the situation, on a local basis. This isn't intended and shouldn't be taken as a disregard or lack of awareness of the fact that a western half of the United States exists and that, as rumor has it, there are folks interested in muzzleloading out there.
I agree wholeheartedly with the shortcomings of the NMLRA and could probably add a few to the list, based on being face-to-face with the Powers-That-Be on a regular basis and not being overly impressed as a result of the contact. However, when I speak of what I'm trying to do here, or what I think about things I know about, which is things here, I am treating no one like a red-headed stepchild. In fact in discussion with the aforementioned Powers-That-Be I mention the Western quite frequently, and when they mumble excuses and rationalizations and in general their eastern-oriented spin on what's going on, out west, I get a little more direct than they like and tell them that if they consider the Western a drain on their attention, energy, and resources, they have an obligation to either improve the situation or cut loose of it, instead of promoting and publicizing it when it makes them look good and then doing their level best to ignore it the rest of the time.
The ideas I'm having are pretty much by definition going to be focused on things here in the east; it's where I live and what I know, as much as I know anything. I'm talking about them here not to make a point of excluding the west, but to get feedback and suggestions and possibly to spur other people's thinking along similar lines, in their parts of the country. If I don't specifically mention the Western Nationals and western events, in general, it shouldn't be taken as disregard for any of that.
I for one, understand what you are saying. Friendship is in your backyard and has been a big part of your business for sometime.
And I don't mean to highjack this thread, so perhaps I'll stir the pot in a new thread in a day or two.