Did you ever notice how the range guru will come over when you are shooting BP and say that is pretty neat but doesn't really have enough power to take deer humanely? But then, his .44 mag will bring down anything. You show him the chronograph readings that show you are throwing way heavier lead at several hundred FPS faster than his .44 and he doesn't believe you. Then launches into a polemic on how the modern bullet is much better than just plain old lead. etc, etc. I've been tempted to let them keep on and get caught by the vent blast when I shoot but always warn them to stand back. They seem to think that is an indication that the gun may explode and leads to another round of bs on the safety of "those old guns". >:( >:(
Yep OldNamVet, It has always amazed me how people who have no actual experience with a gun or load can be such an expert on that particular gun and load.
I had a young man saying some really terrible things about the 30-30 rifle and load. He was just going on about how inadequate the cartridge was. I looked at the guy sort of sideways and asked, "What's that thing you got strapped across your chest?". He replied back quickly, "Why it's a Contender chambered for the 30 Herrett. A heck of a deer killer!" Enough said. He was quiet surprised to learn that his 30 Herrett didn't have the velocity or enegry of the lowly 30-30, but used the same bullets. ;D
I had a similar expierience with the owner of a hunting club I use to be a member of. He made it sound like I needed a LAW (Light Anti tank Weapon modern version of a bazooka for those not familiar with that acronim) to kill a wild hog. Claimed he had seen the cartiledge of a hog stop a 30/06 bullet.
Run into some of those "experts" from time to time. Mostly they just parrot what they have read in a magazine or seen on the Outdoor Channel. They don't know, what they don't know.
Been told to many times that "You cant kill anything with one of them old guns, not enough of this, to many of thats, you need this much to actually kill.....".
I've been huntiung with various flinters and percussions since I was nine years old. Killed hundreds of deer and hogs, a few bears, elk, buffalo, and other critters and have eaten well for many years. I guess I will need to go back and rekill them with something that will actually kill them. You can kill an elephant with a rock if you do it right.
you know my favorite are the guys that say that our rifle aren't effective past say 75 yards. granted it takes practice, and you NEED to know your rifle, but there are recorded kills at some really good distance. mountain men and scouts of the plains and points west didn't think anything of dropping buffalo at 250-400 yards. and my real favorite, general Frazier of the British army at the battle of Shiloh, picked off by a hillbilly at 800+yards! dropped out of his saddle and hit the ground dead. good thing nobody told that hillbilly that these charcol burners couldn't do that!
David Crockett and Micajah Autry (aka Aubry) (at least they think it was those two)were recorded by a Mexian Offier, Col. Luis Pena if I recall, as laying ontop of the low barracks at the Alamo and smacking his canoneers in the head at 250 yards distant. They had to move the 6 pounders back in order to keep the canoneers from being killed. Several recorded shots during the revolution of killing or badly wounding the brits at some 400 yards wre observed. I often try to explain that it does not take a mountain howitzer to kill something, just one well placed shot. Not to boast or brag but I have killed whitetails at over 100 yards on many hunts with 90 grains of FFg and a patched .490 round ball that completely passed thru the deer. On a good day I can hold a 2 inch group at 100 yards with my .45 cva kentucky. They shoot. Its up to us to learn to shoot as well as these rifles will shoot. I was told once by an old WWII veteran I met at the range one day. He asked what rifle I was shooting and answerd with "A 1921 Erfurt German Mauser in 8mm sir". He stated, after pulling off his artificial leg, "you know, a lot of people say that the 8mm is useless for hunting and barely has the power to be effective at much over 50 yards. None of those idiots ever had to dodge bullets from one". He lost his left leg to one at more than 200 yards.
On a hunt last spring I used my .32 traditions Crockett rifle with a patched round ball and 40 grains of FFg to send a hog to swine heaven at 50 yards, hitting him in the head between the eye and the ear. Hammer and ThunderHeart were there with me when I did it. Just to see if it would work. So I beg to differ with the new fangled "You have to have one of these" people on most everything the say. If we couldnt kill anything with them none of us would have survived to this point in history.
http://traditionalmuzzleloadingcheap.com/forum/index.php?topic=5666.msg42799#msg42799
The real fun is just before deer season. The 7mm Eargensplittenloudenboomers appear at the range for the yearly ritual of scope checks. It's just plane fun to punch clover leafs while they're spinning their nobs back and forth as their flinches get worse and worse.
Ive encountered them as well and have asked them if they have ever looked at photos from the civil war wounded and dead. They say that they have and that those wounds were atrocious and nasty. I inform them that many of those wounds were from muzzleloaders and were at longer range so they were not "placed" shots. Then I tell them I have seen the damage a ML can do and I think it is way more devastating than a modern cartridge and if the shot is placed it is usually more humane than a modern gun.
Voy
they`re usually the same guys who are shooting pistol bullets wrapped in plastic out of what is essentially a bolt action muzzleloader . which because it is ," the in thing at the moment " is just absolutely unstoppable ! which is more or less what comes out of the south end of a north bound male bovine !! I ignore these nitwits , whole lot easier than finding a place to hide the bodies ;D
Quotelot easier than finding a place to hide the bodies
dntn ROFL ROFL
Amen brother! You forgot them powder pellets too.
Dont even mention those fake things. They just aint got what it takes an I wont use em. The real BP will outperform it any time.
Voy
Quote from: redhawk on September 28, 2009
Amen brother! You forgot them powder pellets too.
I have a hard time adjusting my load in 50gr, increments.
I wont use them things either. I wont use any of the new fake $#!* they are selling. If it aint real, it aint gonna have much of a shelf life and wont have much power after a couple months. Thats been proven time and time again.
Voy
my (modern) rifles are an 1885 high wall , and an original 1884 trapdoor ,both in .45/70 . I`ve been listening to how under powered they are for years now . but then I`ve blown bowling balls to bits with them ! and its amazing how many big strapping young fellers will refuse to shoot one and say they`ll stick to their .243 ,or .270 , I do believe a lot of them have a severe case of wussie itis ! ROFL been shooting soot belchers for years and you`d have to be either blind or a fool not to be impressed by what they can do !!
Yeh I've killed deer at over 100 yds. with my old CVA penn. longrifle 50cal. 80 gr. FFF and never had a problem makin meat. and at close range its a card cutter for sure got about a half a deck to prove it!!! Do that with a pointy nosed boattail thingamagiggy ROFL!!!!!!
Your Penn Long Rifle should be a tack driver at 100 yds. I know my Dikar and traditions both are.
Voy
Yup it'll hold a 1" group if I can hold it steady enough but that isn't always so easy?
AKA,
Ya need ta git a shootin stick. They work great as a walkin stick as well.
Voy
True, I do need a walkin stick thanks Voy, Great idea!!!!
AKA,
My brother makes some real sweet Diamond willow walkin an shootin sticks if your interested.
Voy