Traditional Muzzleloading on the Cheap

Member’s Work Bench => General Gunsmithing => Topic started by: Razor62 on February 25, 2013, 09:45:12 PM

Title: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Razor62 on February 25, 2013, 09:45:12 PM
You know, when one get's bitten by the gun building bug they don't feel a thing. It just kinda' sneaks up on ya' and before you know it your a crazed lunatic who can't seem to stop dreaming up ways to chew up lots of time and build things that go bang.
I've decided to adopt the term canoe gun as Gunmaker referred to this type of short barreled smoothbore. It seems that this is most likely the best category under which to list a gun such as this.
Started with a .670" bored barrel blank originally destined to become an L.C. Smith shotgun, a grade 3 curly maple blank, a left hand Queen Anne Flint lock and assorted furniture. This will be my first flintlock so if you see me doing something bad please let me know.  ;D
I began today by cutting out my fowler pattern from the maple blank, removing the barrel lump and then drilling and tapping for my breech plug.




Blank saw out:


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/047567B5-E189-43BB-8645-FB9840A40C34-8352-000017A60E3F96BA_zps40f2bc36.jpg)


Breech PLug Installed:


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/699C4E40-598D-4559-B623-AEBD943D5D4F-8352-000017A45CCC6D50_zps4f2f9563.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/3122BABD-0528-41B9-8FBE-1BB64C447D93-8352-000017A5DB8F68F5_zps22d0e2d5.jpg)


.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on February 25, 2013, 11:22:09 PM
Way to go.  These little ones are fun to make.  After finishing mine in .570 I've ordered 2 more of those LC Smith tubes a .570 & .670. They'll have to wait until this long fowler is finisher tho.  Keep us posted, we live for this stuff.  Oh, and there's no known cure for "Gunbuilditis" ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on February 26, 2013, 02:24:36 PM
While I'm thinking of it I want to throw this question out there...What size round ball and what patch thickness would you folks recommend with this bore diameter .670" ?
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Hanshi on February 26, 2013, 02:53:28 PM
I do like those "canoe" guns. thmbsup
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: bowcrazy on February 26, 2013, 03:48:39 PM
Looking forward to watching this one in progress.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on February 26, 2013, 03:54:19 PM
1 dozen .30 cal. RB, Well I don't really know- YET.  That's close to 16 bore, .662 maybe-- TOW has 'em....Tom   
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on February 27, 2013, 02:53:19 PM
.


Thanks Tom. I'll just experiment.

Got the barrel inlet last night. I'll try to inlet the tang this evening if I can sneak away to the workshop.


Barrel Channel:



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/993D2E19-BDFD-4676-9F41-7F2F658C56E1-8905-0000191695B43062_zpse02bd766.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/AA415EDB-9204-4E22-9F73-DBB536AFD1DC-8905-000019169FFF5F93_zpsd67bc22f.jpg)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/FA1BB398-E20B-4EA5-848F-5FF311636B4D-8905-00001916B717DF5C_zps5a194e59.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/0FBAE44C-2683-408B-88E1-5640CBFBAB12-8905-00001916701AE547_zps438b75c1.jpg)
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on February 27, 2013, 04:56:08 PM
Looking good Razor62.  I'm seeing some curl on that block, gonna turn out "perdy sweet". One slight point--be carefull of those magic markers, they leave a wide line.  I use an automatic pencil sharpener powered by a small beaver. HC/PC....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on February 27, 2013, 07:33:54 PM
That's good advise Tom. I'll invest in one of those beavers. Thanks!  Kevin
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on February 27, 2013, 09:43:37 PM
Don't get a tame one whatever you do, they won't work.  ....Tom 
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 06, 2013, 03:26:53 AM
With a little coaching from Gunmaker I was able to file a flat on my barrel and inlet my lock plate. Got a bit scared when I realized that my rear lock bolt was going to be a bit too far forward. Gunmaker helped me out though and I think I'm still in good shape. Thanks Tom!!!
This is my first flintlock and it's nice to be able to lean on the experience of guys like Tom. As long as I'm allowed to make a pest of myself I might as well exploit it. ;D

(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/92876558-3D5C-41B6-9546-31F6D39CCB3A-12140-00001EC519AE4F61_zps503b81fd.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/38A27B02-46E8-4EEB-8EC7-F9B898A5DE8D-12140-00001EC52EB0E88A_zpsaf18ad88.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/E218289F-BB4C-4606-9F45-22DFF02B7249-12140-00001EC54495B825_zpsce5c785f.jpg)
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: William on March 06, 2013, 03:45:24 AM
Maybe if I keep watching other folks building their own muzzle loaders I will work up the nerve to try it myself someday.  For now, my hat is off to you Sir, keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 06, 2013, 08:40:46 PM
.



Thank you William. Success comes to those of us who are too stupid to know that we not capable of success.  ;D The point being that you just gotta' gather as much info as you can absorb and then simply dive in head first. Take each step slowly and consider all considerations and you'll learn as you go. Works for me.

Here's another question for anyone who'd care to provide an answer...
I've been approaching this project as I have in the past with other builds and I'm going back to my books when I need help. The long rifle gun building books that I have recommend that I begin shaping the buttstock & installing the buttplate even before I inlet my lock. I obviously opted not to use this advice. To my mind I need to know exactly where my lock will be in order to know where my trigger will be which in turn will give me a point at which I can measure back and cut my blank to the correct length of pull. Once I've got my proper length determined I can adjust for cast off and then proceed to shaping the buttstock and installing the buttplate. Doesn't this make sense or am I overlooking something? How do you guys approach your builds with regard to sequence?
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: mongrel on March 06, 2013, 09:27:07 PM
I either build things with no buyers lined up, and install whatever length of pull the Voices instruct me to, or I build to order, in which case the LOP is (hopefully) established before any work begins. Which doesn't answer your question but leads me into saying that, in either case, I'm liable to start the butt shaping before the lock goes in, but I'm just as liable to wait. If I might explain:

On many guns (most of my "on spec" pieces, a fair number of commissions) I'm using either CVA or Siler locks. In both cases, I know precisely how far back from the breech end of the barrel the trigger will end up being, because the placement of either the vent liner on a flinter or the drum on a caplock seldom varies more than a tiny fraction, assuming a breechplug with the standard threaded shank approximately 5/8" long. Therefore, on these rifles (or smoothbores) I know where the trigger is going to be located, and from a simple line drawn on the squared-off stock profile I can determine where the buttplate will likewise be located, and install it. Likewise cast-off -- once the buttplate location is determined, cast-off can be established, cut, and shaped into the butt in relation to the centerline of the barrel. I can shape the butt all the way up to a bit shy of where the lock and sideplate panels will begin, before I ever inlet the lock.

Where I have learned NOT to go this route is when I'm using a lock I'm unfamiliar with. Even with Track Of The Wolf's excellent full-sized pictures of both outside and inside views of nearly every commercial lock known to humankind, there is a bit of what I believe is called "perspective error" that can cause a fractional difference between dimensions in the picture and dimensions of the actual lock, and rather than chance it I wait till the lock is in my possession and (since it's right there anyway) go on and install it before moving back into the butt area.

The builder for whom each project is 100% unique and new (in other words who doesn't semi-mass-produce as I do or hasn't done so many guns that lock placement is second nature) is well-advised to stick to the formula of installing the barrel (with vent liner or drum placement established), then the lock, then the trigger, and then establishing the dimensions necessary to proper buttplate placement. And, for what it's worth, if for some reason it ever became MANDATORY to follow a certain sequence, this would be the one I'd recommend and follow myself.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 06, 2013, 09:37:39 PM
I do it both ways, mostly I wait until the tgr. is in tho & go off it to get LOP.  You can determine where your sear is, then unless you want a 25 lb tgr. pull layout the tgr. pivot no more than 1/4" to 5/16" ahead of sear and if possible above sear. This'll give a light smooth release, making it easier to keep sites in alignment.  Most a my guns have 1/4" cast-off as well.   One point---To keep lock plate tight in mortise plane down panel to within maybe 1/16" above lock plate.  Having to go deep into wood can cause tools to wander & cause mortise to get loose.   ....Tom   
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 06, 2013, 10:04:35 PM
.


Thank you gentlemen! Your guidance is very much respected and appreciated.


Mike, I see your point. Once you're familiar with the hardware you can indeed move along following a different sequence. Thanks for validating my thoughts. Makes me feel smart but I know better so it's a shallow victory.  ;D

Tom, I'll keep your pointers in mind. I thought about the mortise depth thing but I didn't act on it. Future reference. I need to study some diagrams of proper trigger placement. I'm well aware of the problems which arise from a lousy trigger pull. I won't have that on one of my guns.

Thanks again guys.

Kevin
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 07, 2013, 03:05:26 AM
look at Alexander's book he goes into tgr. placement as well, with comments about how the old ones did it.  A gun/rifle doesn't need "SET" tgrs to have a sweet pull.  Keep on keeping on Kevin.  ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Red Badger on March 08, 2013, 12:56:41 AM
Quote from: Razor62 on March 06, 2013, 03:26:53 AM
With a little coaching from Gunmaker I was able to file a flat on my barrel and inlet my lock plate. Got a bit scared when I realized that my rear lock bolt was going to be a bit too far forward. Gunmaker helped me out though and I think I'm still in good shape. Thanks Tom!!!
This is my first flintlock and it's nice to be able to lean on the experience of guys like Tom. As long as I'm allowed to make a pest of myself I might as well exploit it. ;D



As long as you are posting great pictures like that and learning you are helping the rest of us... so you can use this place to exploit the masters as long as they will let you and as long as you keep posting so the rest of us can piggyback !   :mini-devil-28492:
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 08, 2013, 02:53:28 PM
It's amazing how long it can take to make a small amount of headway. Spent the day on the project yesterday. I managed to fully inlet the lock, install the lock bolts, inlet the trigger and locate / drill the trigger pin. I also began the ramrod channel. I took a little too much meat outa' the lock mortise 'cuz I thought I was hanging up on my tumbler near the sear grooves. Turned out it was the opposite side of the tumbler giving me trouble. Today I took the stock to the bandsaw and cut it to proper length of pull, adjusted for cast off and used the bandsaw again to filet off the sides of the butt. I also made a template to lay my lock panels out but I purposely left the panels untouched. It doesn't look like much when I look at the gun but as I write this it occurs to me that it actually is a decent amount of ground covered.
I'll post up some pics when I get some shaping done. Right now it looks like it was on the wrong end of a chainsaw and it'd be akin to posting photos of me in my undies. A fact of life yes but no-one wants to look at it. ;D





Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 08, 2013, 02:59:55 PM


As long as you are posting great pictures like that and learning you are helping the rest of us... so you can use this place to exploit the masters as long as they will let you and as long as you keep posting so the rest of us can piggyback !   :mini-devil-28492:
[/quote]

Thanks R.B. I appreciate the encouragement.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 12, 2013, 11:39:40 AM
Time for another question... Due to the short barrel of this gun I'm wondering if it would be better to use only one ramrod pipe and entry thimble rather than two ramrod pipes? It may make the forend appear less crowded. Looking at Tom's Fuzzee I see two pipes and one thimble and it looks correct but I'm not sure if I should plan on the same for my "Canoe Gun" Perhaps my hand rail portion of my forend is a tad too long thus shortening up the ramrod channel but it looks well balanced to my eye.
What say the experts???
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 12, 2013, 04:09:27 PM
This "expert" says do what pleases your eye.  They were of course made every way possible.  Many had 2 pipes none at rod entrance hole, other's 1 pipe period, fancy: 3 pipe's.  Does this clear it up for you ?   ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: mongrel on March 12, 2013, 08:06:30 PM
I second Tom on doing what you think will look best. I'm liable to build two rifles, almost identical in dimensions, and do a different arrangement of ramrod pipes on each, simply because my eye and mood told me one way would look better on one rifle than on the other.

In our cookie-cutter mass-production world we're sometimes uneasy with the idea of something not following a "standard" or "accepted" pattern. These are handmade guns, each piece a unique creation and to a greater or lesser extent a work of art. They didn't follow rigid guidelines back in the day and certainly shouldn't be forced to abide by rigid guidelines today. I say "they" in reference to the guns themselves, because quite often if you pay attention a gun in progress will actually tell you or show you what it needs to have done. If something -- the gun itself, your eye, your mood, whatever -- tells you the piece will look best with an entry pipe and a single forward pipe, that is by all means the way it should be done.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 13, 2013, 04:06:34 PM
Thanks guys. I'll stare at it a little more before deciding. (susp)
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 13, 2013, 07:00:45 PM
Just make sure she stares back.   ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 15, 2013, 03:21:30 AM
.



Made some real progress this week. Drilled the ramrod hole. Soldered on a single barrel lug. Installed my ramrod pipes and drilled for pins on the lug and pipes. Fitted my buttplate and did some preliminary shaping. This gun is almost weightless and there's still lots of wood to remove. Oughta' be a joy to carry and a bear to shoot. Something tells me that even though there's lots of drop in the stock that the recoil will be stout to say the least.



Pipes in place. I decided on three. The forend may be a bit crowded but it didn't look right with only two while I was laying things out. 


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/23BE11FE-3326-4A10-807C-B78FD61AB835-15740-000027CF19ADEE8C_zpscf572d64.jpg)


Buttplate inlet:


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/BEF5B52C-2211-41F8-A209-13D7AC82BB83-15740-000027CF656E7633_zps7c75c3b8.jpg)


Lock panels:


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/F6A82627-33AE-4422-A35B-97130C6ABC77-15740-000027CEC01BE452_zpsa50ebb9e.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/6F025B9F-5569-4054-AF79-78D13EEBF60F-15740-000027CE89EEF563_zpsc7fda14a.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/01687BA6-4750-4DFF-93B8-9A6B3415182F-15740-000027CF8D3A5977_zpsb82a81da.jpg)
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 15, 2013, 04:44:53 AM
Lil fuzzee; weighs 4 lb. & with 60 gr 3f & PRB recoil is stout but not viscous, bout like a 3" 20 ga.  Looking good    ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: pilgrim on March 15, 2013, 06:44:40 AM
         look'in  good,     hdslp      UhOh         Lock is  on the wrong side          slap
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Red Badger on March 15, 2013, 07:39:19 PM
Quote from: pilgrim on March 15, 2013, 06:44:40 AM
         look'in  good,     hdslp      UhOh         Lock is  on the wrong side          slap

Hmmm just thinking here what about a sigle barrel with two locks... one on each side LOL
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 17, 2013, 11:30:57 PM
Now it's my turn for a ?  Where'd you get that nice buttplate, I like it.   ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 18, 2013, 12:48:58 PM
Thanks Tom. I bought this one and modified it to what I thought might be close to what I wanted.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/671/1/BP-ENG-1-B
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 18, 2013, 02:51:14 PM
Thanks, how you coming on her?   ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 18, 2013, 03:48:12 PM
Haven't had very much time over the last few days. Going to the wake of a close friend tonight. 41 years old and decided he'd had enough. Leave's his wife and his 12 year old son to pick up the pieces. Depression is a terrible thing to have to deal with. I'll miss him dearly.

I was able to get to the workbench once for a short while since my last update. Got some more shaping done to the butt. Still need to get a small amount of "fish belly" out of it and slim down the wrist. I want the wrist line to run back some more too. Looking forward to getting back to it. Good therapy.

(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/F23436B3-D134-4A57-8451-23951EC04567-16324-000028ACD2A61759_zps54149ca1.jpg)

(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/60C108C1-BCEC-4F4A-ACB5-76672364924F-16324-000028ACF0C4ADB1_zpse4f5ef7b.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/19B0FC68-E482-4B1C-BFC3-C4D2B3E453B2-16324-000028ACAF945C24_zps16acbaa2.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/A933637D-500F-4C75-A975-4A0A7209DB05-16324-000028AC8AEA70DB_zps0a3bfcea.jpg)
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: pathfinder on March 18, 2013, 07:44:02 PM
Nice work so far!

Sorry for your freind's wife and child. it's just me,but not so much for him! My daughter did it last fall and took her partner with her,so,I know those who were left behind are the ones who suffer.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 18, 2013, 11:00:29 PM
Sorry for your loss Kevin, no words can really help at a time like this.  Depression is a terrible monster, and not to be taken lightly.  Stay in there. You to pathfinder. ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 19, 2013, 01:58:57 AM
.


Thanks guys.

Pathfinder my heart goes out to you. So very very sorry.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 22, 2013, 12:22:56 AM
Got most of the final shaping done today. I wanted to get things down to final contour before installing my trigger plate. Drilled for the tang bolt and got some preliminary work done on the side plate. This is where I start to get charged up. I must've shouldered her a hundred times today. She really feels like a gun now. Lightweight and fast.
Still have the trigger guard to install and I need to modify my trigger to make it fit into the relatively small trigger bow.


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/3A8C24BF-EB29-43F7-B6E7-E63522B47E33-19051-00002D31B91CF4FF_zps2cd5370f.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/D7B0F970-6BD2-433C-A00C-715330B8DCA7-19051-00002D319333F5CC_zps17434daf.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/8CA0519C-197B-4E5C-AA08-126F4C28CBA9-19051-00002D314AD7F002_zps5969950f.jpg)


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/99C18BC1-771E-4F14-A92D-DD0E729E7C4D-19051-00002D311975FEE6_zps230a3d56.jpg)
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: woody on March 22, 2013, 01:28:52 AM
look'n good, sure wish I could spend more time on mine. Really looking forward to seeing this finished. thmbsup
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 22, 2013, 02:30:23 AM
Nicely done a slim wrist is a mark of careful thought & design execution. Makes a gun feel good in your hand. Turkey's leaving the state for parts unknown.  Have you got courage up to weigh her ?  Mine goes 4 lb with a sling.  ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: olflint on March 22, 2013, 03:21:36 AM
Good work Razor62! I also like the slim wrist. Have you decided what finish your going to do to the lock & barrel??
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 22, 2013, 12:34:01 PM
.


Thank you gentlemen.

Tom, I'll put her on the scale when she's completed. Probably gonna' be close to what yours weighs based upon how she feels in hand.

Olflint, I'm kicking around trying to simulate a damascus steel look to the barrel and possibly the lock as well although I'll probably fire blue the lock.

The trigger guard is gonna' pose a serious workload in itself. Lots of prep work to do. This guard was designed to be pinned to the stock with at least four pins. I don't know if I want all those extra holes in the stock. I'm thinking of possibly pinning the forward portion and using a couple of screws for the rear. Any thoughts from the other builders? There's not allot of wood to pin to up front without breaking into the ramrod hole.


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/FA776290-F8F2-4147-AABE-4F6A83643769-19051-00002E12C25A6EBB_zps0342e9bb.jpg)
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: pathfinder on March 22, 2013, 02:09:19 PM
Those are casting gates. Only #'s 2 and 5 would be used for pin's and #5 is optional for the pin,I've seen both used on originals. @ screws on the rear extention is more common.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 22, 2013, 03:18:41 PM
Thank you Pathfinder. I guess my inexperience is shining through. I understood that those were casting gates but I assumed that they were all intended to be pinned. That's good news. I think that I'll pin number two and five then. I can handle two more pin holes.  ;D
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 23, 2013, 03:07:42 AM
Managed to polish up my trigger guard tonight. Tom ( Gunmaker )had an awesome suggestion as to how I might anchor the trigger guard for cleaning it up. Alas, I couldn't locate the required chunk of scrap. I was getting ready to fabricate something to clamp the guard into when I remembered that I recently rescued a very cool vise from the scrap bin at work. I think it was originally intended to be used for sheet metal fabrication but the fledgling flintlocksmith in me  saw "trigger guard vise" in the design and rescued it from oblivion. The lightbulb came on tonight and I dug it up and put it to work.  It's like it was made for the task.

(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/E28B34B6-F019-4307-A5FE-7ECC520A0FDD-19503-00002EA22F36A6EC_zps3fa34604.jpg)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/368D11B7-CFB7-4076-ABE5-E8C84D38AE40-19503-00002EA2047BF617_zps3ea7d081.jpg)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/FF466804-E7E1-4EBE-B2FC-1015AE52BA1F-19503-00002EA1F1A4362D_zps211f8ed8.jpg)
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: sweed on March 24, 2013, 09:14:02 PM
Very good re-purposing of an old carpenters tool.

That is a hand saw vice used by very old men when I was a kid, long time back, to hand sharpen hand saws by hand. Guess you could call it a ("HAND") vice! ROFL

I still have my dads old saw vice somewhere, I think,.. maby...Thanks next time I see it I'll throw it in my growing gunsmith tool box, and think of you when I use it! dntn
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 25, 2013, 04:53:56 PM
Ah-Ha!!! Thank you Sweed. That makes perfect sense. A handsaw vise. Another mystery solved thanks to the wealth of info that can be shared via the internet.   
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: gunmaker on March 25, 2013, 11:09:38 PM
I had a vice once---getting married cured me of it.    Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Dogshirt on March 26, 2013, 01:02:55 AM
I've gotta ton o' vices, and 40 years o' marriage ain't cured me yet! ;D
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on March 26, 2013, 01:24:39 AM
Quote from: Dogshirt on March 26, 2013, 01:02:55 AM
I've gotta ton o' vices, and 40 years o' marriage ain't cured me yet! ;D

Here Here!!!!
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on April 03, 2013, 03:38:16 PM
.


Posted this in another thread but I thought I'd update here.


Working on a damascus pattern look for my barrel. Came up with this. A little more tweaking and I'll be where I want to be:



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/BF9B935C-993F-4E87-A24A-56467B2CA15B-2355-000005C9341339CE_zpsde00e31e.jpg)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/7A430B82-D403-4E91-8C08-6898CC89C268-2355-000005C91C57F6CC_zpsd469b04e.jpg)



Made up a crude rear sight too. It's loosely based on pictures of original rear sights from flintlock fowling pieces that I've seen however most of the originals were much more ornate. This gun will be used primarily for turkey and if it shoots a round ball well enough also for deer. Because of the intended usage I felt that a primitive rear sight would be appropriate. Here's what I came up with:



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/128E17F4-3DDC-4C27-BB12-3F885996CE09-2355-000006A5B75F666C_zps8f1c3949.jpg)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/E8C0687F-3BCF-41B9-A185-54AF2CB90A74-2355-000006A5948C4843_zps4569fb5d.jpg)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/5F87E9EA-BDD1-4562-8960-5C126BCB8F89-2355-000006A54113D4C7_zps86cd6116.jpg)



Look for another update soon as I'm planning on spending many hours on the gun tomorrow.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on April 12, 2013, 01:13:04 AM
.


Well, some of you may have read about my little set back with regard to my broken frizzen in the thread entitled " Frizzen Frustration". I'm pleased to announce that I'll be sending the entire lock to L&R and they'll fit a new frizzen. I left it up to them to determine if a warranty is in order. Either way I was told that they'd have it for no more than 24 hrs and ship it right back to me. looks like I'll have time to work up a load for turkeys and get out there on the 25th. I was able to achieve a very nice brown patina to the lock parts using  Brownells slow rust formula and a damp box. The lock looks like it's been around for eons.



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/240FA862-ED25-406D-AF35-EBF3B1D7F7D0-6519-00000F9582947A53_zpsca84051d.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/240FA862-ED25-406D-AF35-EBF3B1D7F7D0-6519-00000F9582947A53_zpsca84051d.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/C990F95C-3609-40D6-B899-3CE3B3123FBC-6519-00000F9565E6A08E_zps39f0ab67.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/C990F95C-3609-40D6-B899-3CE3B3123FBC-6519-00000F9565E6A08E_zps39f0ab67.jpg.html)




The stock is 90% complete. I used my homebrewed aqua fortis stain. ( Very pleased with this stuff! ) A few more coats of Tru-Oil and then I'll rub the gloss back some with rotten stone / mineral oil to put a few years on the appearance. I'm hoping that this one gives the impression of being an antique.



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/590C8452-8953-4ADF-B9FE-4DFB6BDA9CC5-6519-00000F89EE2CF0C1_zps4a0d5dfd.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/590C8452-8953-4ADF-B9FE-4DFB6BDA9CC5-6519-00000F89EE2CF0C1_zps4a0d5dfd.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/EEA59280-41C6-49BC-8F44-F2091F45BB03-6519-00000F89FB154196_zps8704dddb.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/EEA59280-41C6-49BC-8F44-F2091F45BB03-6519-00000F89FB154196_zps8704dddb.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/C0B1B549-7951-49BC-9F4F-ACA550B2D16F-6519-00000F8A10212B58_zpsd9ebd0f2.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/C0B1B549-7951-49BC-9F4F-ACA550B2D16F-6519-00000F8A10212B58_zpsd9ebd0f2.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/3D05980D-47D3-4200-9795-9154493D5230-6519-00000F8A056726B4_zps19cf29eb.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/3D05980D-47D3-4200-9795-9154493D5230-6519-00000F8A056726B4_zps19cf29eb.jpg.html)



I've been working on the barrel finish too. I was able to etch a nice damascus pattern into the steel and the browning process is underway. You'll have to wait at least until tomorrow to see that however 'cuz it's not quite ready. should look aged like the lock if I can pull it off.

Currently looking for ideas as to how I can age the brass somewhat. I've heard of using black powder fowling and many other concoctions even yellow mustard. Just wondering if anyone's got ideas???




.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: William on April 12, 2013, 01:21:49 AM
I once heard that yellow mustard would age brass but it turns out to not affect it at all.  I think you'd be better off using powder fouling for that job.

The stock is gorgeous as is and I'd be happy just to let it age naturally, even with the lock having gotton a head start.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Rev on April 12, 2013, 01:23:41 AM
Ammonia...
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: mongrel on April 12, 2013, 01:35:53 AM
Either egg whites or yolks -- been years since I read about it and tried it, so I can't recall which. The nice thing is, break the egg and you have both to try. It very definitely works.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: Razor62 on April 21, 2013, 02:35:39 PM
.


She's finished!

Made some mistakes on this one. Chalk it up to a learning experience. All in all I'm pleased with it as a first attempt at a flintlock. I know my next one will benefit from my goofs on this one. ;D




(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0066_zpscb7f2192.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0066_zpscb7f2192.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0067_zpsd99d00da.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0067_zpsd99d00da.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0068_zpse3813e94.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0068_zpse3813e94.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0069_zps8b8b95d5.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0069_zps8b8b95d5.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0062_zps21c5c85f.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0062_zps21c5c85f.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0064_zps8c2eb1e3.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0064_zps8c2eb1e3.jpg.html)



Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: sweed on April 21, 2013, 03:48:33 PM
 [hmm] Chalk it all up to learnin'.... next build you may want to put the flint on the other side!? ROFL Ya did good Razor, thanks for showin' it.  thmbsup  thmbsup Send it over to me, so I can field test it for you,... you know safety and all... I'll get it back as soon as I'm thou thoroughly convinced that it is absolutely perfectly safe!  flwa
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: gunmaker on April 21, 2013, 04:57:43 PM
Frencified---that front site is most definitely located as per "French" practice.  Great job, show us (1.) a target  (2.) a long beard on the ground. Good to go Razor62.   ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: beowulf on April 21, 2013, 05:25:28 PM
beautiful ! even for one of those wrong sided guns !  thmbsup
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: azwidget on April 21, 2013, 05:35:59 PM
Newly built and it looks older than I am! Excellent work - really enjoyed watching this build   chrrs
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Hanshi on April 21, 2013, 05:39:39 PM
Razor, you did a masterful job on that gun and it shows.

Gunmaker, you have to understand that a man is a work in progress; but when he gets married, then he's finished.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: hotfxr on April 21, 2013, 07:57:36 PM
That is a beautiful piece. But doesn't the primer fall out since you have to shoot it upside down to have the lock on the correct side?
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: William on April 21, 2013, 08:54:22 PM
Quote from: hotfxr on April 21, 2013, 07:57:36 PMThat is a beautiful piece. But doesn't the primer fall out since you have to shoot it upside down to have the lock on the correct side?
You guys are incorrigible!

On behalf of all lefties, this canoe gun is a thing of beauty with the lock being on the correct side and all; LOL!  blah
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: gunmaker on April 21, 2013, 11:51:37 PM
HEY!!  (1.) the lock is on the Correct side.  (2.)  You can bet it'll fire upside down, any flinter will.---or throw it away.  200 year's ago there were flint underhammer guns, and the Brit's wouldn't except a Bess that wouldn't fire inverted.  Sweet turkey getter Razor62, but then I'm biased I've got 2 or 3 of those shorty's somewhere around here.  Left-Right or underneath--all same.    ....wino Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Razor62 on April 22, 2013, 04:12:39 PM
Thank you folks for all of your kind words. Thanks especially to Tom, Mike and all of the others who've supplied advise, knowledge and encouragement throughout this project. It's definitely a better finished product because of your help.

Trying to post a link to a short video of the first trip to the range. The sound is off. You'll hear the gun fire followed by a long delay and then you'll see it fire. Unfortunately you won't be able to see the target well enough to see tell what kind of pattern it produces. After some adjustments I've got a good load developed now and turkeys beware. ;D


http://contour.com/stories/file0033--429
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: gunmaker on April 23, 2013, 09:26:07 PM
I think your check for all those ??? MUST be lost in the mail, ya think?  HE-he !!  congratulations Razor62.  Now for a nice Turkey dinner.  Believe it or not we have a big pop. of those things up around lk. Mead on Az. bdr.  Have you weighed her yet?  The .570 I just finished up today goes 4.4 lb. empty.  She flies tomorrow !    You are good to go.   Stay with us friend.   ....Tom
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: woody on April 29, 2013, 01:54:22 AM
Kinda late on this, but she's a sweet little outfit. Really did a great job Razor.  dntn
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: bowcrazy on April 29, 2013, 06:10:54 PM
 Real nice build, Razor. Also would love to hear about your loads that you have tried, I am going to
have a trade gun with this same barrel in a few months, and any information would be welcome, and appreciated. 
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Razor62 on January 13, 2017, 03:04:38 AM
Hey Tom aka Gunmaker!!! I was reading back through my build and I realized that you had asked me a couple of times what the canoe gun weighed in at. Well i decided to break out my postal scale and see what's what... Actual weight unloaded :     4.14lbs  not too hard to take, :-).
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: beowulf on January 13, 2017, 03:18:50 AM
Quote from: William on April 12, 2013, 01:21:49 AM
I once heard that yellow mustard would age brass but it turns out to not affect it at all.  I think you'd be better off using powder fouling for that job.

The stock is gorgeous as is and I'd be happy just to let it age naturally, even with the lock having gotton a head start.
mustard wont do diddly to brass , but try it on high carbon steel !
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: William on January 13, 2017, 03:36:13 AM
Quote from: Razor62 on April 21, 2013, 02:35:39 PM
.


She's finished!

Made some mistakes on this one. Chalk it up to a learning experience. All in all I'm pleased with it as a first attempt at a flintlock. I know my next one will benefit from my goofs on this one. ;D


(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0066_zpscb7f2192.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0066_zpscb7f2192.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0067_zpsd99d00da.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0067_zpsd99d00da.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0068_zpse3813e94.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0068_zpse3813e94.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0069_zps8b8b95d5.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0069_zps8b8b95d5.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0062_zps21c5c85f.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0062_zps21c5c85f.jpg.html)



(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s272/klarose103/Canoe%20Gun/000_0064_zps8c2eb1e3.jpg) (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/klarose103/media/Canoe%20Gun/000_0064_zps8c2eb1e3.jpg.html)

Since this post was resurrected I thought everyone should get to see your canoe gun again.

Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Razor62 on January 13, 2017, 01:21:27 PM
Thank you William!!!!
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: William on January 13, 2017, 08:58:38 PM
Most welcome Sir!  ;D
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Hanshi on January 13, 2017, 10:23:56 PM
Very good looking gun; you did a fine job.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Razor62 on January 14, 2017, 04:03:20 AM
You guys are the best! I'm just gonna' keep stopping by every now and then to get my ego fed. LOL!!!!
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Hawken50 on January 14, 2017, 04:07:58 AM
 thmbsup  That is one nice piece of work there Razor.....love it,
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Red Badger on January 14, 2017, 04:20:40 AM
wow!   thmbsup  When is it headed this way?   :mini-devil-28492:
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Razor62 on January 14, 2017, 04:23:49 AM
Red!!!! I never figured you for a lefty.    LOL! ;D
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Red Badger on January 14, 2017, 04:35:35 AM
Quote from: Razor62 on January 14, 2017, 04:23:49 AM
Red!!!! I never figured you for a lefty.    LOL! ;D

I'm not but for something like that I'll make sacrifices...  :mini-devil-28492:
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: beowulf on January 14, 2017, 01:36:39 PM
not a south paw , but I`ve used left handed guns before ( heck I figured out how to use left handed scissors right handed  ROFL) and that really is a good looking piece of work .  thmbsup any mistakes you may have made do not seem to be visible to the naked eye . believe any of us here on tmoc would be more than happy with it !  ya do good work !
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Razor62 on January 15, 2017, 02:26:13 AM
Thank you gentleman.
Title: Re: Canoe Gun in the works....
Post by: R I Jerolmon on February 09, 2017, 11:23:29 AM
Quote from: gunmaker on February 25, 2013, 11:22:09 PM
Way to go.  These little ones are fun to make.  After finishing mine in .570 I've ordered 2 more of those LC Smith tubes a .570 & .670. They'll have to wait until this long fowler is finisher tho.  Keep us posted, we live for this stuff.  Oh, and there's no known cure for "Gunbuilditis" ....Tom

Tom, Do you mind advising me where to get the LC Smith barrels and information regarding the breech plug prep.? Thanks
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Fredredcj on February 11, 2017, 02:57:38 AM
That is sweet. Rear sight is way cool too   
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: beowulf on February 11, 2017, 03:35:24 PM
every time I hear the term ,"canoe gun " I think of a book I read several years back !  They shoot canoes , don`t they ?  , by Pat  McManus ! good book , worth reading !
Title: Re: Canoe Gun COMPLETED....
Post by: Hanshi on February 11, 2017, 07:21:01 PM
Strange how other's mediocre work and mistakes is still exponentially beyond my BEST efforts.  rdfce